D&D Campaign 2: D&D Harder
Re: D&D Campaign 2: D&D Harder
We'll always have the option of taking a short rest after an encounter, so not too worried about topping up HP after combat. During could be an issue for me though so sidekick intervention will be useful, I think. Plus I've already started sketching out a bit of a backstory in terms of how I teamed up with them.
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Re: D&D Campaign 2: D&D Harder
I like the idea of having a rogue on-hand, it had already occurred to me that could be another hole in our lineup. I think the sidekick thing could work well, I'm the same in terms of not minding things getting a bit crowded during combat.Mantis wrote: ↑Fri Mar 25, 2022 1:41 pmWouldn't it be simpler to just give you a Warrior sidekick and thematically say that he is an animated undead? Keeps the number of people down and is easier to manage right off the bat. His powering up as he levels could be explained as you making upgrades to him like some sort of Frakenstein's monster. And for healing purposes there are ways you could narratively brush over the fact that a Cleric is working with a Necromancer, there are Death Domain clerics afterall.
Having a dedicated healer would be my preference as when you're reliant on yourself for healing through potions and such you're effectively sacrificing a round of combat just to heal yourself, which is never a particularly fun or engaging way to spend a turn. Farmed out to an NPC healbot though and it's not an issue.
If I had a sidekick then I was thinking that I could quite easily fit an Expert into being with Dharnon. Then we'd have one each and they'd cover the basis of warrior, healer and rogue; so would be a nice balance.
I personally don't mind a crowded board as I enjoy the larger scale combat. Whether Wrath wants the pain of running it all the time is another matter though as I know it can be quite a handful when there's lots to manage at once.
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Re: D&D Campaign 2: D&D Harder
I have a very amusing idea for an Expert sidekick who would be very easy to fit in and require very little in terms of additional roleplaying. 
Re: D&D Campaign 2: D&D Harder
I suppose what I'm interested in is how this all works mechanically. Would the two of you effectively be playing two separate characters? In my case it's pretty simple because I could give my sidekick character as much personality as I deem fit, given that they're an undead construct and not really a person with hopes and motivations, but how would it work for a cleric and rogue?
Re: D&D Campaign 2: D&D Harder
Sidekicks are basically heavily simplified player characters, so they level up with you and have a stat block and a few abilities more akin to a monster than a full player class. You can either RP them as a totally separate character or the DM can control them, it's totally flexible. They can have as much or as little personality as you like, say for instance you just wanted to play them as a silent hired help or a full blown extra party member.
My wizard is going to be living on the breadline as a busking magician to start with. So my idea for the Expert sidekick who accompanies me is to basically have him play the role of a pickpocket who hangs out in the crowds and steals people's coin to help supplement our lifestyle because, frankly, my magic show is terrible.
I was also going to make the Expert a Kenku so that I don't have to do a separate voice and I can have fun with the Mimicry ability.
My wizard is going to be living on the breadline as a busking magician to start with. So my idea for the Expert sidekick who accompanies me is to basically have him play the role of a pickpocket who hangs out in the crowds and steals people's coin to help supplement our lifestyle because, frankly, my magic show is terrible.
I was also going to make the Expert a Kenku so that I don't have to do a separate voice and I can have fun with the Mimicry ability.
Re: D&D Campaign 2: D&D Harder
"A tiefling, two bird men, a tiny cat person riding a skeleton, and a cleric walk into a bar..."
Re: D&D Campaign 2: D&D Harder
Did I mention the cleric I have in mind is a weird, spooky child?
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Re: D&D Campaign 2: D&D Harder
Backstory time:
Dharnon is far away from home. Coming from a family of over achieving siblings, he was distraught to be rejected from the prestigious magic academy in the city nearest his village. Dejected, he travelled far across the land in search of tutelage. It was on this journey where his caravan was attacked by Drow slave traders who butchered the guards and took the civilians through dimensional portals to a barren land of ash, where they were forced to toil in labour camps mining strange magical ore and minerals.
How long passed in this wasteland plane he could not say, for time worked in mysterious ways, the sun rose and fell seemingly at random and sometimes the nights felt like they stretched on for eternity.
Salvation finally came at the hands of a band of adventurers who burst into the realm and assaulted the Drow forces. Freed from his shackles in the commotion and seeing an opening, Dharnon ran and plunged himself into the first portal he saw from which his saviours had emerged. When his feet hit the dirt, it wasn’t the familiar soft grass of his forest homeland he felt, but sand and the sight of a desert stretching for miles around.
A year has passed since his arrival through the portal. Dharnon ekes out a living traveling from inn to inn busking with his limited magical abilities as he continues his very long trek homeward.
Dharnon is far away from home. Coming from a family of over achieving siblings, he was distraught to be rejected from the prestigious magic academy in the city nearest his village. Dejected, he travelled far across the land in search of tutelage. It was on this journey where his caravan was attacked by Drow slave traders who butchered the guards and took the civilians through dimensional portals to a barren land of ash, where they were forced to toil in labour camps mining strange magical ore and minerals.
How long passed in this wasteland plane he could not say, for time worked in mysterious ways, the sun rose and fell seemingly at random and sometimes the nights felt like they stretched on for eternity.
Salvation finally came at the hands of a band of adventurers who burst into the realm and assaulted the Drow forces. Freed from his shackles in the commotion and seeing an opening, Dharnon ran and plunged himself into the first portal he saw from which his saviours had emerged. When his feet hit the dirt, it wasn’t the familiar soft grass of his forest homeland he felt, but sand and the sight of a desert stretching for miles around.
A year has passed since his arrival through the portal. Dharnon ekes out a living traveling from inn to inn busking with his limited magical abilities as he continues his very long trek homeward.
Re: D&D Campaign 2: D&D Harder
So the reason I'm not overly keen on the sidekick idea is at least partially selfish; I've deliberately chosen a class where minions are the defining feature, and I guess everyone else getting their own makes that feel a little less exciting. It's not a deal breaker for me, I certainly don't want to put my own enjoyment above that of the two of you, so I'll go with sidekicks if that's the concensus. I did initially pitch my having a pair of skeletal helpers as a way of circumventing the lack of a true meat shield in the party, but that sorta feels like a bit of a double standard so I'd be happy to drop the idea.
There's also the roleplay consideration that concerns me; we might know that the sidekicks aren't as important, but would our characters know that? Just as an example, I was planning to go with the "weird, spooky child" angle with Opus; he might end up closer friends with Sly's sidekick than with the rest of the party.
I know we have to work out something to address the party's healing shortfall. One of the reasons I suggested potion crafting was that drinking a potion is I think a bonus action rather than a full one; you wouldn't be losing a full turn if you had to heal up, you'd just get to do slightly less during one. I also have the option of multi-classing into druid (or use the Magic Initiate Druid feat), which would be thematically appropriate for the backstory I'm building (Opus' parents were druids, and at the point he became trapped they had passed on some of the basics to him), but I'm not sure how well Cure Wounds scales.
There's also the roleplay consideration that concerns me; we might know that the sidekicks aren't as important, but would our characters know that? Just as an example, I was planning to go with the "weird, spooky child" angle with Opus; he might end up closer friends with Sly's sidekick than with the rest of the party.
I know we have to work out something to address the party's healing shortfall. One of the reasons I suggested potion crafting was that drinking a potion is I think a bonus action rather than a full one; you wouldn't be losing a full turn if you had to heal up, you'd just get to do slightly less during one. I also have the option of multi-classing into druid (or use the Magic Initiate Druid feat), which would be thematically appropriate for the backstory I'm building (Opus' parents were druids, and at the point he became trapped they had passed on some of the basics to him), but I'm not sure how well Cure Wounds scales.
Re: D&D Campaign 2: D&D Harder
Drinking a potion as a bonus action is a house rule that I use. Feeding one to someone else I make require a full action.
A possible workaround would just be to keep using that ruling and for Wrath to be generous with the potion loot. Up to what everyone thinks. As a wizard I sorely lack in magical healing abilities outside of basic potion use.
Just having the extra numbers in the party means Wrath can throw bigger challenges at us though which is always an interesting experience. A squishy team of 3 will have a pretty hard limit on how many foes can be thrown into the mix.
A possible workaround would just be to keep using that ruling and for Wrath to be generous with the potion loot. Up to what everyone thinks. As a wizard I sorely lack in magical healing abilities outside of basic potion use.
Just having the extra numbers in the party means Wrath can throw bigger challenges at us though which is always an interesting experience. A squishy team of 3 will have a pretty hard limit on how many foes can be thrown into the mix.
Re: D&D Campaign 2: D&D Harder
As I think I'm the only one here with zero experience in balancing a D&D encounter, I'll defer to the rest of you on that.
I think we'd all potentially gain access to Cure Wounds at level 4 (when you can choose a feat instead of the ability score improvement), but that's a full action and we'd be hitting that same loss of agency problem mentioned above. I don't really know how Blood Hunters work, so I'm not sure if it's even an option for Sly as I don't know if he gets any spell slots to actually cast it. I suppose I'm used to video games where characters capable of sacrificing their own health usually have a way of getting it back. Cure Wounds is a touch-only spell, but one of the reasons I suggested I take it is because of a Tabaxi trait called Feline Agility, which lets me dash without using my action (I can't do it again until after I've not moved at all on a turn), so I would at least be able to get to within range of the rest of the party to heal them up.
I had it in my head that drinking your own potion was a bonus action as standard (I thought Matt Mercer had said as much in an early CR episode, but I may have jumped to that conclusion when he specified that feeding one to someone else was a full action); if that's not the case then we'd need to wait for Wrath to make a judgement on it.
I think we'd all potentially gain access to Cure Wounds at level 4 (when you can choose a feat instead of the ability score improvement), but that's a full action and we'd be hitting that same loss of agency problem mentioned above. I don't really know how Blood Hunters work, so I'm not sure if it's even an option for Sly as I don't know if he gets any spell slots to actually cast it. I suppose I'm used to video games where characters capable of sacrificing their own health usually have a way of getting it back. Cure Wounds is a touch-only spell, but one of the reasons I suggested I take it is because of a Tabaxi trait called Feline Agility, which lets me dash without using my action (I can't do it again until after I've not moved at all on a turn), so I would at least be able to get to within range of the rest of the party to heal them up.
I had it in my head that drinking your own potion was a bonus action as standard (I thought Matt Mercer had said as much in an early CR episode, but I may have jumped to that conclusion when he specified that feeding one to someone else was a full action); if that's not the case then we'd need to wait for Wrath to make a judgement on it.
Re: D&D Campaign 2: D&D Harder
Alright, so after giving this a fair bit of thought while I was out for my walk this morning, I'm going to drop my opposition to the sidekick idea. It sorta feels like I'm artificially limiting our choices, and I suspect that none of the alternatives to having a dedicated heal bot I've come up with are going to work long-term as our levels increase. So (pending Wrath's approval of course), are we going with Mantis taking the Expert, Sly the Spellcaster, and my taking the Warrior? Is everyone ok with mine thematically being an undead construct? I'll come up with a way of camouflaging him so as not to spook ordinary townsfolk, and we may need to work out a way of him being healed as healing spells don't traditionally work on the undead. I'm still planning on taking the druid initiate feat anyway, so we could say that my personal Cure Wounds would work on him?
Re: D&D Campaign 2: D&D Harder
Oh man, things have been spiralling a bit while I was out yesterday!
First, potions. Rules as written require a full action to use a potion, which to me is lunacy, so I agree with Mantis on the house rule of using a bonus action. It’s also fair I think given that some classes or builds have very little they can do with a bonus action. If I’m honest I’ve never given any thought to making it a full action to use a potion on someone else but it seems reasonable so I’m happy to stick with that for consistency. In terms of crafting or buying potions, that’s absolutely possible. I’ll have to check on the specifics of crafting but I’ve no problem with it in principle.
Now to the elephant (and the kenku, and the spooky child and the undead horde) in the room: sidekicks. In broad terms I see them as retainers who generally take a back seat to the heroes, and they would know their place. I get the concern that they might see themselves as equals to the heroes and sometimes steal the thunder, but I think it’s fair to say that their place in the party is one of respectful deference, like the relationship between a batsman and his officer in WW1.
Mechanically speaking, they fill gaps and offer utility, whether that be picking locks, trying to keep the party from dying or acting as a meat shield. I really don’t see them as having the same level of heroism or capability as the main player characters - first and foremost this is YOUR story, not theirs, though they can very much play a valuable role in that story.
Raid, for Opus I hear the concern about sidekicks overshadowing the undead minions and it’s totally valid. Rather than the minions being your sidekick, would it be fairer for you to control your own separate sidekick as well as the minions? That way you’re not losing out by having a core part of your character being the sidekick and it would distinguish the minions as being something totally separate and exclusively under your command?
If that’s the lineup we went with, I think that would give us 3 PCs, 3 sidekicks and Opus’s minions.
First, potions. Rules as written require a full action to use a potion, which to me is lunacy, so I agree with Mantis on the house rule of using a bonus action. It’s also fair I think given that some classes or builds have very little they can do with a bonus action. If I’m honest I’ve never given any thought to making it a full action to use a potion on someone else but it seems reasonable so I’m happy to stick with that for consistency. In terms of crafting or buying potions, that’s absolutely possible. I’ll have to check on the specifics of crafting but I’ve no problem with it in principle.
Now to the elephant (and the kenku, and the spooky child and the undead horde) in the room: sidekicks. In broad terms I see them as retainers who generally take a back seat to the heroes, and they would know their place. I get the concern that they might see themselves as equals to the heroes and sometimes steal the thunder, but I think it’s fair to say that their place in the party is one of respectful deference, like the relationship between a batsman and his officer in WW1.
Mechanically speaking, they fill gaps and offer utility, whether that be picking locks, trying to keep the party from dying or acting as a meat shield. I really don’t see them as having the same level of heroism or capability as the main player characters - first and foremost this is YOUR story, not theirs, though they can very much play a valuable role in that story.
Raid, for Opus I hear the concern about sidekicks overshadowing the undead minions and it’s totally valid. Rather than the minions being your sidekick, would it be fairer for you to control your own separate sidekick as well as the minions? That way you’re not losing out by having a core part of your character being the sidekick and it would distinguish the minions as being something totally separate and exclusively under your command?
If that’s the lineup we went with, I think that would give us 3 PCs, 3 sidekicks and Opus’s minions.
Re: D&D Campaign 2: D&D Harder
Yeah, I think that's basically the plan. I'll have one named skeletal minion that'll be my Warrior sidekick (and so long as everyone's happy, he'll be summoned and controlled by an item I found in the library as Opus wouldn't have the necessary necromancy spells until level 5), and then other nameless minions that will likely come and go (you have to cast spells daily to maintain an undead horde, so we'll see how it turns out). I've actually had a concept in mind that'll fit a sidekick character pretty well, I might PM it over to you Wrath along with some thoughts on Opus' motivations.
Re: D&D Campaign 2: D&D Harder
If you didn't want to deal with the complications of having a summonable undead construct as your warrior sidekick, you could always explore the idea of using a Hollow One. They're basically normal people who have died but come back and function as they normally would, albeit they are now classed as undead. It's in the Wildemount book.