The Absolute State Of It - It's The UK Politics Thread!

[DjchunKfunK]

David Miliband would have done worse than Ed because Labour will never win another election by being slightly left of the Tories. Why vote for Tory-lite when you can just vote for the real thing? They need to offer a clear alternative which they currently do under Corbyn. It just needs polishing up a bit and a break from constant media attacks. It's no surprise that when the election started and the media had to be unbiased and give more air-time to Labour, due to election rules, that they gained so much in the polls.

Labour still have some issues but they should not be looking to put up a more Tory-like candidate.

[Strudel]

I'm not sure that makes much sense. Why vote for Tory-lite instead of Tory? Because you don't want a Tory government, so even something slightly better is worth voting for if those are your only choices. I'm not saying I think that Labour should go that way; I agree that a clear alternative is better and Labour shouldn't be looking for a Tory-lite candidate. I'm just saying that if the choice did end up coming down to Tory vs Tory-lite, it's nonsense to suggest everyone will just vote Tory.

[Mantis]

I'm a really big fan of Corbyn and what he's managed to achieve despite pretty much everyone being against him. The Conservatives have adopted stances on a few things that mimic Labour policy in the last election. We're at a point now though where I'm not sure how much more he can achieve; the media and huge cadre of people spreading misinformation has dragged him down every step of the way and he really hasn't done himself many favours in so many ways. When he's on point he comes across as a far greater statesman than anyone the Tories have managed to foist upon us in the last eight years; but the fact that he doesn't get the airtime and is prone to gaffes because he doesn't really play the game has hurt his credibility so much. I'm not sure that Labour could win an election with him as leader.

I overheard people at work last week talking about the remembrance ceremony at the Cenotaph and the conversation went along the lines of "Did you see Corbyn in that coat? By god what a wreck and terrible person he is. Blah blah blah. He's meant to be the opposition leader" and I just sat there rolling my eyes.

Ideally he'd hand the reins over to someone with the same values and political stance as him who hasn't been pre-judged by the public so that they can build on the foundations he has set within the party. Sadly I'm not sure that anyone like that really fits the bill currently, so he continues to have my support.

[DjchunKfunK]

I'm not sure that makes much sense. Why vote for Tory-lite instead of Tory? Because you don't want a Tory government, so even something slightly better is worth voting for if those are your only choices. I'm not saying I think that Labour should go that way; I agree that a clear alternative is better and Labour shouldn't be looking for a Tory-lite candidate. I'm just saying that if the choice did end up coming down to Tory vs Tory-lite, it's nonsense to suggest everyone will just vote Tory.

If you are trying to win an election you need to appeal to people who have voted Tory previously, they are not going to be voting for an off-brand Tory party.

[Mantis]

They did with Blair.

[Tommy]

Tory-Lite is such a shit phrase.

[Achtung Englander]

Going on Labour performance in the last election when so much was going against May, and they still lost, maybe a left of centre Tory party is what people are looking for (as much as that sounds like an oxymoron). I think Labour today would be miles ahead of the govt if it was not for Corbyn. His agenda (including McDonnell and Abbot) is just too left wing for many. The way Momentum took over the party a couple of years was a hard pill to swallow for many. Anyway with the current state of British politics all the parties look shit at the moment.

Btw I think Diane Abbot is suffering from dementia or Parkinson Disease. She does not look well and her speech is blurred.

[Jez]

She's just a useless shit. Can't stand her it's hard to even reply to a post with her in mind.

[Mantis]

I believe Diane Abbott announced last year that she has diabetes.

[Jez]

From all dat sweet sugar daddy Corbyn cream

[DjchunKfunK]

I think Labour today would be miles ahead of the govt if it was not for Corbyn.

What makes you say that? If it wasn't Corbyn we would have another Blair clone which didn't work last time so why would it work now? The only reason Labour did as well as they did during the last election is because they offered a real alternative under Corbyn and managed to appeal to a new demographic that hadn't really been interested in politics. The way the political map is now setup with the SNP locking out Scotland, Labour needs to appeal to new and lapsed voters, they are not going to do that by trying to be a more 'centerist' party, for all that means, because they are fighting the Tories on their own ground and they will always be at a disadvantage. The political system is stacked against Labour so just trying to battle the Tories for the 'centre ground' is never going to be a winning strategy.

[Tommy]

I think Labour today would be miles ahead of the govt if it was not for Corbyn.

What makes you say that? If it wasn't Corbyn we would have another Blair clone which didn't work last time so why would it work now? The only reason Labour did as well as they did during the last election is because they offered a real alternative under Corbyn and managed to appeal to a new demographic that hadn't really been interested in politics. The way the political map is now setup with the SNP locking out Scotland, Labour needs to appeal to new and lapsed voters, they are not going to do that by trying to be a more 'centerist' party, for all that means, because they are fighting the Tories on their own ground and they will always be at a disadvantage. The political system is stacked against Labour so just trying to battle the Tories for the 'centre ground' is never going to be a winning strategy.

This is utter nonsense.

Corbyn trails in every poll on leadership and (on my last check) every poll on economic management. Further, this is the most disastrous government of my lifetime at the very least and Labour are barely drawing even.

Corbyn's the Buzz Lightyear of politics. And he's utterly fine with it. I despise him.

That's another thing I hate about the current situation re. Labour. Anybody who questions Corbyn is assumed to want a leader in a similar vein to Blair. It's a false dichotomy. Maybe they just want someone who's serious about attaining power. (This isn't aimed at anyone btw, it's just a general peeve).

[Mantis]

You must admit that the almost none stop propaganda and smear campaign against him has probably had a pretty significant impact on people's views of him more so than any of his own failings as a leader. I said already that I think public opinion is too far gone for him to pull it back, but there's a reason that when he was given a fair platform to share his policies during the campaign last year that Labour jumped massively in the polls.

The level of falsehoods in some instances that have been spread about him over the last few years has sometimes bordered on pure slanderous and libelous lies. Good Morning Britain seems to have an utter obsession with undermining him at every opportunity they have.

[Tommy]

You must admit that the almost none stop propaganda and smear campaign against him has probably had a pretty significant impact on people's views of him more so than any of his own failings as a leader. I said already that I think public opinion is too far gone for him to pull it back, but there's a reason that when he was given a fair platform to share his policies during the campaign last year that Labour jumped massively in the polls.

The level of falsehoods in some instances that have been spread about him over the last few years has sometimes bordered on pure slanderous and libelous lies. Good Morning Britain seems to have an utter obsession with undermining him at every opportunity they have.

I think it's had an impact but to write off his failings (which some do) as entirely the fault of others is insanity. He's been offered multiple opportunities to clarify his position on a number of issues which whether I like it or not are pertinent and he shuns it.

I think he also comes across really poorly when he does get a platform too. His mannerisms and tone are condescending and he comes across as an angry woodwork teacher.

He should have resigned after the last election in my opinion, and I don't doubt that should we get another election soon (which is unlikely) he'll lose that and stick around too. Unfortunately, it all seems to boil down to the fact that he's far more comfortable being a voice of protest and for one reason or another he feels those in need are a satisfactory price to pay.

Anyway, this is all a digression. Fuck Brexit.

[Raid]

His mannerisms and tone are condescending and he comes across as an angry woodwork teacher.

Really? I try to avoid watching the news these days (I find current political discussion strongly affects my depression and I have altogether too much of that from other sources), but when I followed him during the last election I thought he came across remarkably well.