The Absolute State Of It - It's The UK Politics Thread!

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Wrathbone
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Re: The Elephant in the Room - Brexit

Post by Wrathbone » Tue Sep 03, 2019 3:19 pm

Tory MP Phillip Lee has defected to the Lib Dems, meaning Boris Johnson no longer has a majority.

There is milk in my fridge which I think (and hope) will outlive this government.

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Re: The Elephant in the Room - Brexit

Post by Achtung Englander » Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:00 pm

:D

I must say Labour have no spine. They are backpedaling on wanting an election. Put forward you manifesto (if they can decide on one) and let the people decide. I cannot understand that they only want an election if no deal is off the agenda regardless.

Hey ? :-s

That tells me Labour believe they cannot win. Also democracy. The Tories can put forward anything they want in an election - it is for us to decide on what we think about them in the ballot box.

This is pretty shoddy politics from everyone at the moment. No one is prepared to lose.

Philip Lee is my MP.
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Mantis
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Re: The Elephant in the Room - Brexit

Post by Mantis » Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:11 pm

I think most sides are currently worried that forcing an election will give control to Johnson over when to actually hold it and none of them trust him one jot that he won't say they'll have it before Brexit day and then promptly move it to November when it will be too late.

At this point an election shouldn't be the focus. The primary goal that needs to trump everything should be stopping a catastrophe on October 31st.

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Re: The Elephant in the Room - Brexit

Post by The Jackal » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:29 pm

Kenneth "you'll never take me alive, you straw-haired bastard" Clarke to presumably either go the LBJ route and fuck public life off completely, or someone's gon' git stabbed before weeks-end.
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Rossell
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Re: The Elephant in the Room - Brexit

Post by Rossell » Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:30 pm



A moment of light relief.

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Re: The Elephant in the Room - Brexit

Post by Stormbringer » Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:39 pm

It's not a river, Jamie Downham, just a pool:

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Raid
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Re: The Elephant in the Room - Brexit

Post by Raid » Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:50 pm

That has to have been intentional, surely.

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Medicine Man
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Re: The Elephant in the Room - Brexit

Post by Medicine Man » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:44 pm


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Strudel
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Re: The Elephant in the Room - Brexit

Post by Strudel » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:29 pm

:D

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The Jackal
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Re: The Elephant in the Room - Brexit

Post by The Jackal » Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:26 pm

Anyone who is familiar with "The Obsolete Man" from The Twilight Zone will understand how not falling for a GE now is really the best way to kill off BoJo and the Tories for a good while.
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Mantis
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Re: The Elephant in the Room - Brexit

Post by Mantis » Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:39 pm

Makes me laugh that there are still people who think that Johnson is really putting Corbyn and Labour in their place because Labour are now apparently 'scared' of an election. Boris wants an election before the end of October to run a campaign as saviour of the people versus those nasty politicians delaying Brexit. Not only will it likely lead to a Tory/Brexit Party pact, No Deal and ridiculous amounts of economic ruin for the country, it's also a highly dangerous position to take to pit the people against MPs. It wouldn't surprise me if a campaign like that led to assaults and possibly even more murders of politicians. Johnson is a complete disgrace, quite happy to try and sweep up all the populist racist votes without any care for how much he is fueling British nationalism.

Labour have them in a corner now though, McDonnell looked like he was reveling in watching the Tory party's very public and embarrassing disintegration when he was on Peston earlier. If things go well with the Benn Bill then Johnson will be forced to go back to the EU to beg for an extension after he spent so long burning those bridges with his hate mongering.

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The Jackal
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Re: The Elephant in the Room - Brexit

Post by The Jackal » Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:57 pm

Mantis wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:39 pm
Makes me laugh that there are still people who think that Johnson is really putting Corbyn and Labour in their place because Labour are now apparently 'scared' of an election. Boris wants an election before the end of October to run a campaign as saviour of the people versus those nasty politicians delaying Brexit. Not only will it likely lead to a Tory/Brexit Party pact, No Deal and ridiculous amounts of economic ruin for the country, it's also a highly dangerous position to take to pit the people against MPs. It wouldn't surprise me if a campaign like that led to assaults and possibly even more murders of politicians. Johnson is a complete disgrace, quite happy to try and sweep up all the populist racist votes without any care for how much he is fueling British nationalism.

Labour have them in a corner now though, McDonnell looked like he was reveling in watching the Tory party's very public and embarrassing disintegration when he was on Peston earlier. If things go well with the Benn Bill then Johnson will be forced to go back to the EU to beg for an extension after he spent so long burning those bridges with his hate mongering.
None of this changes my opinion of Corbyn or McDonnell, or Dianne Abbott or Seumus Milne or Len fucking McClusky.

But it does remind me that I know really good people in the Labour Party who pre-date this phase and have been worthy of responsibility before, during and after. This is the only thing working in Labour's favour with the state of its top tier atm.
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Mantis
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Re: The Elephant in the Room - Brexit

Post by Mantis » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:10 am

I don't dispute that their leadership has been questionable at times over the last couple of years, and I'm pretty sure that Corbyn needs to stand down at some point and let someone else take over as the smears combined with his own goofs have made him pretty toxic to the electorate.

Overall the policies Labour have come out with since Corbyn took over have largely been very good though, and I admire how well he rises above the negativity and just takes it all on the chin when you think of some of the outrageous stuff that's been printed about him.

Was talking about this whole debacle with some people at work today though and three of them, all traditional Labour voters who would never vote Tory in their lives, all said they couldn't vote for Labour with Corbyn as leader. They couldn't say exactly what reason for other than that they "didn't trust him".

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Wrathbone
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Re: The Elephant in the Room - Brexit

Post by Wrathbone » Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:57 am

That’s exactly the line I hear from almost everyone about why they won’t vote Labour. When I ask them why he’s untrustworthy they say he sits on the fence with everything, but when I ask for examples and point out the cases where he’s taken a firm stance, they accuse him of not playing the political game well enough.

People have an irrational hatred of Corbyn, which is inevitable when you have a sustained smear campaign from almost every corner of the MSM.

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Re: The Elephant in the Room - Brexit

Post by Stormbringer » Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:59 am

Mantis wrote:run a campaign as saviour of the people versus those nasty politicians
Mantis wrote:to pit the people against MPs

Isn't this what every party does in every election ever?

"Vote for us, we have your best interest at heart, unlike THAT party, who will only bring this country to ruin..."
Between tedium and fright
Such is the song of the nether world
The hissing of rats
And the jarring chants of angels

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