The Absolute State Of It - It's The UK Politics Thread!

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Mantis
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Re: The elephant in the room - Brexit

Post by Mantis » Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:05 pm

I don't think May will allow us to crash out purely from a self interest point of view. As well as making the Tories unelectable for a generation I very much doubt that she wants to be remembered as the PM who destroyed the country.

Allowing a third vote after she had bribed the DUP back on side and convinced enough of her own MPs to back her should never be allowed to happen, it makes a mockery of Parliament if you can literally just play a game of chicken and repeatedly have the vote until one side finally blinks in the face of crashing out. I'd actually rather crash out and teach everyone a lesson than her deal go through and the whole thing end with a whimper because May's deal being a success would guarantee that the whole Brexit issue would just not go away for years to come afterwards.

Edit: Seems that the Gov is going to write to the EU to request an extension, or so current unconfirmed reports say.

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Re: The elephant in the room - Brexit

Post by Raid » Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:12 pm

Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with Bercow; she should never have been allowed to have a second vote on a largely unchanged plan, nevermind a third. Sadly I don't think I have your faith in May's desire to put the country first, the way I see it all she has to do is blame someone else and then resign. It's what her predecessor did, and he doesn't seem to have suffered as a result. Hell, Blair is considered by many to be a war criminal, and he's still doddering about on the periphery of British politics.

I have positively zero faith in the people in charge of this country. I don't put that down to my political leaning either, it's entirely down to the complete bloody farce that is Brexit. Responsible politicians should have a bloody clue what's going to happen in two weeks.

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Re: The elephant in the room - Brexit

Post by Mantis » Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:08 pm

I think you're right actually. I thought maybe now that the stark reality of what will happen in the event of a crash out was apparent that she wouldn't let us do it. But she really is kowtowed by the extreme Brexiters in her party like Bone and Mogg. Bone even went as far as saying that an extension beyond the end of this month to sort stuff out was a 'betrayal of the British people' and she didn't even disagree with him. She also said that no deal hasn't been taken off the table, despite Parliament voting overwhelmingly to avoid it last week

We are fucked. Utterly and completely.

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Re: The elephant in the room - Brexit

Post by Mantis » Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:27 pm

This is becoming the ultimate standoff now. EU have said they will only grant a short extension if May's deal is passed next week. So now we either pass it next week or face crashing out in 10 days. ERG are still going to vote against it and likely the DUP will too, which means May will be relying on Labour to win when she puts the deal to the Commons for the third time.

I'm starting to get the feeling that this whole thing might end up with a whimper. Labour will cave and support May's deal so that they don't get blamed for destroying the economy and both major parties will be complicit in diminishing our country for no reason whatsoever. Then we can look forward to several years of arguments with Europe over the backstop when it inevitably kicks in.

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Re: The elephant in the room - Brexit

Post by Stormbringer » Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:33 pm

I thought Bercow had forbidden any more voting on the deal?
Between tedium and fright
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And the jarring chants of angels

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Re: The elephant in the room - Brexit

Post by Mantis » Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:41 pm

He has, or at least without any substantial changes to the withdrawal agreement so as to warrant another vote. I guarantee that she will find a way around it over the weekend though. It's not exactly uncommon for her to totally go against the wishes of the rest of the House and do what she likes anyway.

The fact for Parliament now is that if we don't have a third vote on May's deal then we will crash out in 10 days by default, and there is absolutely no time to negotiate any other outcome at this point. There could be enough support on both sides of the House to persuade Bercow to allow a third vote on that basis.

Or May could trigger a general election and resign, though I very much doubt that given that her priorities always seem to be 1) Herself 2) The Tory party 3) The country. No guarantee that the EU would see that as worth granting the extension for either, particularly with what Tusk has said today about it being her deal or nothing.

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Re: The elephant in the room - Brexit

Post by Raid » Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:45 pm

Yeah, I don't think that a British general election would be grounds for a delay. May has so annoyed EU leaders that they're just not willing to make any concessions for us. Our only option to avoid crashing out with no deal would be to rescind Article 50, and I just can't see May giving that a moment's thought. Brexit means Brexit, remember?

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Re: The elephant in the room - Brexit

Post by Stormbringer » Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:52 pm

I can't understand why May, originally a remainer, is so utterly fixated on driving it through at any cost. For what purpose? How does it benefit her or the Tory party, if that is the order of her priorities as Mantis says? If none of it is legally binding anyway, I don't understand why somebody who is actually personally against leaving the EU would board the Brexit train, crank it up to full steam and snap off the break lever.

Mantis wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:41 pm
her priorities always seem to be 1) Herself 2) The Tory party
You'd think by now she would realise that thanks to the fiasco of the past three years, both these things are, long-term speaking, shafted, and in that order.
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Re: The elephant in the room - Brexit

Post by Mantis » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:04 pm

Well I'm not sure that she ever really cared that much about the people in this country given her record as an MP and some of the awful things she votes for. She just doesn't seem to be particularly competent either, so while the current scenario of appeasing the hard-right Brexit contingent within her party probably seems like a good choice for her, I doubt she's aware of how volatile it's going to make things in years to come. So long as those 80 nutjobs are happy.

If she delivers a no deal Brexit I think the Conservative polls will be boosted for a while because the 17m Leave supporters will be happy. I'm looking forward to the inevitable "We didn't think it'd be like this though" when the nation goes into meltdown.

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Re: The elephant in the room - Brexit

Post by Stormbringer » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:27 pm

I am still blindly optimistic that some better arrangement will work out in the long term.
Between tedium and fright
Such is the song of the nether world
The hissing of rats
And the jarring chants of angels

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Re: The elephant in the room - Brexit

Post by Drarok » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:46 am

Mantis wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:04 pm
I'm looking forward to the inevitable "We didn't think it'd be like this though" when the nation goes into meltdown.
Ahahaha, no chance. They'll double down. "Well, if you remoaners had just let them get on with it, we wouldn't be in this mess!"
Raid wrote:
Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:24 pm
And that's the story of why I'm not allowed near pregnant women for the next few weeks.

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Re: The elephant in the room - Brexit

Post by Stormbringer » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:12 am

I don't know what good it will do, but has anyone signed this petition yet?

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584
Between tedium and fright
Such is the song of the nether world
The hissing of rats
And the jarring chants of angels

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Re: The elephant in the room - Brexit

Post by Wrathbone » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:48 am

Site down for maintenance. Make of that what you will.

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Re: The elephant in the room - Brexit

Post by Stormbringer » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:53 am

Yeah, I had that, but then it worked again. I think there's an incredibly large amount of people accessing the page.

I don't think Theresa May is deliberately sabotaging it.
Between tedium and fright
Such is the song of the nether world
The hissing of rats
And the jarring chants of angels

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Re: The elephant in the room - Brexit

Post by DjchunKfunK » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:31 am

I can't understand why May, originally a remainer, is so utterly fixated on driving it through at any cost.
To save her party. Remain MPs are less bolshi and less likely to cause trouble because the country did vote to leave after all. The Brexitiers however are willing to do pretty much anything to get what they want so in order to keep her party from tearing apart May has decided the best cause of action is to try and appease the right wing.

The site crashed because it is not used to the amount of traffic, May has no control over the Parliamentary site.

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