The Elephant in the Room - Brexit

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DjchunKfunK
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Re: The elephant in the room - Brexit

Post by DjchunKfunK » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:40 am

The only way this is sorted is if Article 50 is delayed, the parties come together and like Mantis said some sort of Norway+ deal is negotiated. This would require May to drop her red lines, ignore the ERG and everyone to reconcile the fact that freedom of movement is necessary in order to get a deal that doesn't wreck our economy.

This could all have been done two years ago but May set out her stupid red lines, decided that placating the Brexitiers was her best course of action, passed Article 50 before she was knew what she wanted to negotiate and called an election that lost her her majority. That's quite a string of cock ups.

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Mantis
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Re: The elephant in the room - Brexit

Post by Mantis » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:25 am

I knew it, she still won't abandon her red lines on leaving the single market and doesn't even seem to want to include Corbyn in the negotiations. Some cross party consensus that'll be.

Meanwhile the anti-EU Tory party contingent has drawn up a No Deal plan which effectively demands free trade but without paying the divorce bill or offering any assurances on the Irish border. What world do these people live in? Anybody advocating a No Deal scenario at this point should be regarded as a dangerous extremist and be totally ignored, the impact of such an outcome is well documented now and yet the ERG simply do not care.

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Animalmother
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Re: The elephant in the room - Brexit

Post by Animalmother » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:42 pm

Not sure if anyone has seen this gem yet :lol: :lol:


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Re: The elephant in the room - Brexit

Post by Sly Boots » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:43 pm

:lol:

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Mantis
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Re: The elephant in the room - Brexit

Post by Mantis » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:31 pm

A Tory MP has literally just made the claim that their party has delivered on education more than any Labour government ever have because kids are now going to school and learning to read. :lol:

This debate is absolutely pointless. A days wages for them to literally shout party political arguments at one another with no chance of anyone changing their mind. Just have the bloody vote already and get on with arguing about what to do next on Brexit.

Excellent speech by Tom Watson though, one of the few today who has outlined the situation in a rational and logical way without resorting to just angrily criticising the Government. I feel like Corbyn totally fluffed his efforts with this vote by not even remotely trying to convince the Tories that they should vote May out. You don't convince anyone by just being an angry man and it's not Labour votes that he needs to win round tonight to succeed in this vote.

Fucking hell, can't say the same thing about Gove though. I wish he'd just fuck off.

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Re: The elephant in the room - Brexit

Post by eny » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:16 pm

19 in it.....that is a lot closer than I thought it might be...
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Achtung Englander
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Re: The elephant in the room - Brexit

Post by Achtung Englander » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:51 pm

Mantis wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:31 pm

Excellent speech by Tom Watson though, one of the few today who has outlined the situation in a rational and logical way without resorting to just angrily criticising the Government.
Really - personally I thought Gove just handed him a new one. Completely shredded Watson speech apart with the fact he said nothing about why Corbyn should be leader. Completely obliterated his argument. Yeah May is shit but Corbyn is a fucking disaster. If he cannot win a no confidence vote after the biggest defeat for a Govt bill in the history of the House of Commons, just sums up how fucking useless he is.

The man stands for nothing and that is what he gets and deserves. Nothing. Could not convince one single member of the Tory and DUP to vote with him and yet 1 Labour MP had the courage to say his leadership is dog shite.
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Mantis
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Re: The elephant in the room - Brexit

Post by Mantis » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:03 pm

Achtung Englander wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:51 pm
Mantis wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:31 pm

Excellent speech by Tom Watson though, one of the few today who has outlined the situation in a rational and logical way without resorting to just angrily criticising the Government.
Really - personally I thought Gove just handed him a new one. Completely shredded Watson speech apart with the fact he said nothing about why Corbyn should be leader. Completely obliterated his argument. Yeah May is shit but Corbyn is a fucking disaster. If he cannot win a no confidence vote after the biggest defeat for a Govt bill in the history of the House of Commons, just sums up how fucking useless he is.

The man stands for nothing and that is what he gets and deserves. Nothing. Could not convince one single member of the Tory and DUP to vote with him and yet 1 Labour MP had the courage to say his leadership is dog shite.
Well for a start, it was a confidence vote on the Government and that is exactly what Watson covered in his speech, it wasn't really the place to talk about why Corbyn should be PM (yes, I know they don't get on though). It's hardly like Gove said even the slightest positive thing about May is it, all he did was hurl the same old smears at Corbyn and boast about the Government building some aircraft carriers with no planes on them.

He was NEVER going to win this confidence vote against the Government. No Tory in this situation would ever have voted with Labour even if it had been Tony Blair sat on the opposition benches as leader. The DUP bribe was literally the only thing that saved the Government, if they'd all voted against May then she would have lost by a single vote. The Government is being propped up by 10 MPs who represent a party of utter nutjobs whose view on Brexit is completely impossible.

That one Labour MP who said Corbyn was dogshite isn't a Labour MP anymore, he was suspended pending accusations of sexual assault and then quit the party before any internal reviews could be held. Funnily enough he's another Blairite who's had a chip on his shoulder about Corbyn since day one, and also potentially a pervert it seems.

I'm increasingly doubtful of Corbyn's tactics in this whole debacle and think we might be better served with someone else as Labour leader, but you really seem to have it in for the guy; do you really believe every little thing his critics say about him without bothering to check how much basis any of it has in reality?

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Achtung Englander
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Re: The elephant in the room - Brexit

Post by Achtung Englander » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:34 pm

given that 2/3 of his parliamentary party think he his shit does not give me any confidence on why I should support a pacifist borderline communist
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Mantis
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Re: The elephant in the room - Brexit

Post by Mantis » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:39 pm

That last bit is a fair enough reason to not like him. I'm personally not a pacifist or a communist but I still agree with him on many things and quite like him. Whether he needs to be replaced as Labour leader or not is something I'm still deciding on.

What the rest of the PLP thinks is kind of irrelevant. I would never rely on what how many of a group of other people think to decide my own views.

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Re: The elephant in the room - Brexit

Post by The Jackal » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:06 pm

"Now I know I voted to leave the EU,and to do so as quickly as possible via the PM's deal, but I'm just going to use some time on the most critical day of this debate to insist we adopt some EU-mandated guidelines on household letterboxes."

Did someone forget to log into their alt account or summat? I looked up her voting pattern thinking "you're fucking joking..."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46895002
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Achtung Englander
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Re: The elephant in the room - Brexit

Post by Achtung Englander » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:23 pm

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Re: The elephant in the room - Brexit

Post by Tommy » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:17 pm

I can't stand that guy.

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Mantis
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Re: The elephant in the room - Brexit

Post by Mantis » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:08 pm

Various amendments being voted on in due course, one of which will send May back to Brussels to try and renegotiate the backstop so that when the EU tells us that they won't budge on it and we crash out with No Deal, the Tories can essentially blame the EU for it.

I'm kind of looking forward to crashing out without a deal now, it'll at least be amusing to see so many people who voted for it get their comeuppance.

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Re: The elephant in the room - Brexit

Post by Raid » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:24 pm

But they won't see it as a comeuppance, will they, they'll just blame the EU for not giving us the deal that we so obviously deserved.

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