You have quite the treasure there in that Horadric Cube!

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Mantis
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Re: You have quite the treasure there in that Horadric Cube!

Post by Mantis » Sun Aug 15, 2021 1:09 pm

The beta ends today doesn't it? There's another open beta in a week or so and then all the characters are being wiped ahead of full release.

I've just polished off Act 1 with my Sorceress and have had the same issue with mana use. I think when it comes to launch and I make a fresh character I will just pick a melee class to save the aggravation.

There are a few little quality of life things they've added in like the auto pick up for gold and the shared character stash. But overall I think the core experience is still solid enough to look over the other missed opportunities like inventory management.

I much prefer the pace and feel of D2 to D3. It's slower and more methodical, if a little clunky at times, but it's just so much more satisfying to explore those super dark tombs with the palpable sense of dread on what's around the corner. In D3 you just feel like a wrecking ball blasting through everything and the combat has no weight to it.

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Re: You have quite the treasure there in that Horadric Cube!

Post by Raid » Sun Aug 15, 2021 1:22 pm

Oh was it only a couple of days? I thought it was a week. Well, regardless I'm about this afternoon if you fancy a go.

I still maintain that Diablo III was a vastly better experience if you start on a higher difficulty setting, making it feel a bit more dangerous like II is. When the game released you had to play each difficulty setting through before it unlocked the next, which was just absolutely crap game design - it took some 30 hours for the game to present a challenge. I think with the expansion they allowed you to up the challenge right from the start.

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Re: You have quite the treasure there in that Horadric Cube!

Post by Mantis » Sun Aug 15, 2021 2:30 pm

The expansion for D3 was pretty much a requirement to get anything out of that game. They did a pretty decent job in the end with it, I certainly played through the various fractal rift things and did the bounty missions quite a lot.

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Re: You have quite the treasure there in that Horadric Cube!

Post by DjchunKfunK » Sun Aug 15, 2021 6:30 pm

Raid wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 12:59 pm
I have to admit I'm feeling more than a little guilty having given Blizzard money, but like Mantis I'd bought the game prior to this latest scandal coming out.

I kinda agree on some of the QoL changes they could have made.
-I've always hated the stamina system, it feels like it's there just to slow you down, it doesn't add anything whatsoever to the gameplay (I'm not aware of there being any abilities that make use of it, though admitedly I only ever play casters so maybe it's a melee thing?). They could have simply removed it altogether and the game would have been better for it.
-Inventory management too is a hassle, and it's really obvious here considering how little bag space you have; just having the ability to rotate items would have been a plus, or maybe forcing single-square items to fill a single row when they go into your inventory rather than being placed into the most-top-left space available.
-Mana regen is painfully slow at the beginning of the game, either forcing you into quaffing potions like nobody's business (and then needing to inventory manage all of these) or using weapons that don't really fit the class. My Sorceress has to rely on a crossbow, which doesn't exactly fit the fantasy. Diablo III gave each class a set of skills that did little damage but restored your main resource, which is just much better game design.

But then the argument could be made that it wouldn't quite be Diablo II if they did stuff like that. Graphics and sound effects are one thing, but whether good or bad these little niggles are part of the gameplay. I'm not going to go as far as saying II is a better game than III, I think there are so many improvements in III that the slightly weaker theming and atmosphere can be overlooked when the gameplay is simply better. Still, I meant to play maybe the first couple of quests in this beta, but then I completely lost a couple of hours and have now finished a lot of Act 1, so it's clearly still a very compelling experience.

Mantis; do you fancy meeting up for a little co-op action this week?
I'm not trying to have a go at anyone who still ordered the game, especially if you already did so. Boycotting is very much a personal decision imo.

I think there are changes they could have made around QoL and UI that would have left the game pretty much the same but I understand their reluctance not to.

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Re: You have quite the treasure there in that Horadric Cube!

Post by Raid » Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:07 pm

Oh yeah, I didn't think you were having a go, in fairness I might be doing the same thing if I hadn't already put my money down.

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Re: You have quite the treasure there in that Horadric Cube!

Post by Mantis » Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:06 pm

This now appears to be live.

I'm desperate to hop in but I've got so much on over the next few days.

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Re: You have quite the treasure there in that Horadric Cube!

Post by Raid » Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:14 pm

Well as the game seems to be experiencing the usual Blizzard launch woes, I wouldn't worry.

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Re: You have quite the treasure there in that Horadric Cube!

Post by Mantis » Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:30 pm

Managed to sneak in a quick 40 minutes with Bird and blasted through the den of evil and Blood Raven.

The rubber banding enemies that I saw a lot of during the beta seems to have been thankfully addressed even despite the obvious enormous server pressures they're having. Took us 20 minutes to get into a game but it was perfectly stable once we were in.

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Re: You have quite the treasure there in that Horadric Cube!

Post by Raid » Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:40 pm

Mantis wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:30 pm
Managed to sneak in a quick 40 minutes with Bird and blasted through the den of evil and Blood Raven.
Lucky you. I've not even managed to get into the game yet.

Incidentally, I detest it when a game tells you to check your internet connection when it's the company servers causing the problem.

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Re: You have quite the treasure there in that Horadric Cube!

Post by Mantis » Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:16 pm

Thoroughly enjoyable so far.

Nice to play in a trio as the magic of the game isn't quite the same when you're soloing it.

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Re: You have quite the treasure there in that Horadric Cube!

Post by Raid » Fri Sep 24, 2021 8:05 pm

Yeah, I don't think I'd have had the patience to get through Act II without other players.

As much as I've enjoyed it so far, replaying it hasn't done anything to change my opinion that Diablo 3 is just a better game overall. 2 may have the better atmosphere and a story worth talking about, but the interface design and player agency are significantly better in the sequel. The gameplay is as addictive as it always was, but I just felt I had more to do in 3 while 2 can feel awfully repetitive.

It's an excellent remake, it's incredibly authentic to the point where it's genuinely surprising when you briefly switch back to the old graphics and remind yourself just how dated the original looks. I just think that game design has moved on considerable since the original released.

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Re: You have quite the treasure there in that Horadric Cube!

Post by Mantis » Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:54 am

Playing so far has solidified my view of the opposite. Obviously D3 has benefitted from coming along over ten years later so it has more advanced systems and more content options, but the actual core gameplay loop hasn't changed in over twenty years and I just find the combat in D2 more satisfying. All the fractal dungeons and nephilim rifts in D3 are just procedurally generated from an array of map tiles and Monster stats, so whilst there is far more content to grind, it makes absolutely no difference what map you're in or enemies you're fighting to me. D2 has its fair share of grinding specific boss runs for gear, which provides a fair amount of repetitive longevity, but D3s fractal dungeons are literally designed to be endlessly run with an essentially limitless amount of combinations. That feeds more into the games as a service, play forever, mentality which I'm not really into. You can do that with D2 if you really want to though.

The tone and atmosphere of a game contributes a lot to my overall enjoyment of it too, and D2 is just perfect in that regard with its ethereal music and dark gritty feel, plus the more somber NPCs and overall darker writing. D3 always felt like Diablo at Disney World to me and I was numb to all the terrible pantomime baddies and dialogue. I prefer the slightly more muted and reserved take on the skill system too, far less like a constant display of fireworks and glam that D3 offered. Contrasting the skill tree with the constant ability to switch in and out with the skill runes in D3 is very much a personal preference I think.

Whilst it is a lot more fun with a party to go around trashing everything with an army of skeletons, I do think there is merit in playing solo just to take your time and actually listen to all the NPC dialogue. You get a bit more of the RPG experience that way and the writing is really solid.

It's horses for courses really. I really do think this is the best ARPG of all time though. There's a reason everything since has imitated it.

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