Anthem [PC, PS4, XBone] - February 22nd 2019

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Re: Anthem [PC, PS4, XBone] - February 22nd 2019

Post by Snowy » Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:05 am

Sly Boots wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:07 pm
DjchunKfunK wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:13 am
Angry Joe is pretty much spot on. It's incredible that a loot shooter could get the loot so wrong.

I've had my fill now and I doubt I will be going back. The Division 2 looks like it is going to be far more successful in being that type of game.
Incidentally, given the failure of Anthem and the fact I just can't/don't want to get into Destiny 2, I've been wondering about whether I might be up for The Division 2. I think there might be others as well (Snowy?).

I wonder if we might get some groups going when that comes out...
Yep count me in for some of that.
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Re: Anthem [PC, PS4, XBone] - February 22nd 2019

Post by Sly Boots » Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:11 pm

Another Angry Joe vid, not his review but an additional discussion vid about elements of the game:



I'm mainly posting because about 10 minutes in he mentions a term that has apparently entered the publisher lexicon, particularly for these 'live service' games: Minimum Viable Product (MVP).

If that doesn't send a chill up your spine, I don't know what will. The upshot, obviously, being these companies are identifying the absolute bare minimum they have to put out at launch for players... and while some additional content is doled out free along the line (AJ points out how threadbare the supposed update plan for Anthem is though), doubtless a lot will be being held back for future paid DLC and expansions.

It sounds like most players are ditching the game after reaching the end of the story because there's so little content... isn't the point of these games versus a contained single-player experience that there's a shitload of content to keep you invested for as long as possible?

I really think EA (and Bioware) has screwed up here, they're not going to have any player base left to speak of by the time a decent amount of content has been added to the game, and even that won't gloss over the other problems (loading screens, grinding samey mission types).

Minimum Viable Product. Jesus christ.

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Re: Anthem [PC, PS4, XBone] - February 22nd 2019

Post by Medicine Man » Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:35 pm

TBH I think the MVP they have put out at POS is their real USP. At least the vanilla SKU is anyway, whether they get any ROI is another matter. Ultimately it may all come down to poor KPO IMO. :P

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Re: Anthem [PC, PS4, XBone] - February 22nd 2019

Post by Sly Boots » Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:37 pm

Medicine Man wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:35 pm
TBH I think the MVP they have put out at POS is their real USP. At least the vanilla SKU is anyway, whether they get any ROI is another matter. Ultimately it may all come down to poor KPO IMO. :P
FU

;)

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Re: Anthem [PC, PS4, XBone] - February 22nd 2019

Post by Wrathbone » Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:47 pm

Luckily for the consumer, the minimum viable price we can choose to pay these publishers is zero.

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Re: Anthem [PC, PS4, XBone] - February 22nd 2019

Post by DjchunKfunK » Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:53 pm

They have said all future DLC will be free so they can't be holding stuff back to sell to people.

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Re: Anthem [PC, PS4, XBone] - February 22nd 2019

Post by Sly Boots » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:02 pm

DjchunKfunK wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:53 pm
They have said all future DLC will be free so they can't be holding stuff back to sell to people.
The armour cosmetics and emotes that were plainly visible in previews in particular seem tailor-made for microtransactions. What other possible reason could there be for them to have been taken out just before release? Taking them out only to put them back in later for free makes no sense.

None of the stuff announced in that update roadmap sounds like it will really add anything of substance to the game. New world events?

Were those big Destiny expansion packs that changed the game free? I genuinely don't know, I took no interest in the game. If they were paid for then I've no doubt EA will be looking to go down a similar route.

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Re: Anthem [PC, PS4, XBone] - February 22nd 2019

Post by Snowy » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:11 pm

MVP has been around in software development for some years now, but obviously it means something completely different when applied to games.

MVP in business software development means you get something that fixes the problem(s) stated in the business case, giving maximum bang for minimum bucks rather than the solid gold Rolls Royce that business subject matter experts will come up with when brainstorming (want to give a project manager the heebie jeebies? Just say "Wouldn't it be good if the platform could...").

MVP should never be applied to games as the end product should be polished and exceed expectations. You stop delivering that by design and watch your reviews, sales and ultimately your company disappear down the toilet.

Kinda like will be the fallout from Anthem I suspect!
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Re: Anthem [PC, PS4, XBone] - February 22nd 2019

Post by DjchunKfunK » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:49 pm

Sly Boots wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:02 pm
DjchunKfunK wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:53 pm
They have said all future DLC will be free so they can't be holding stuff back to sell to people.
The armour cosmetics and emotes that were plainly visible in previews in particular seem tailor-made for microtransactions. What other possible reason could there be for them to have been taken out just before release? Taking them out only to put them back in later for free makes no sense.

None of the stuff announced in that update roadmap sounds like it will really add anything of substance to the game. New world events?

Were those big Destiny expansion packs that changed the game free? I genuinely don't know, I took no interest in the game. If they were paid for then I've no doubt EA will be looking to go down a similar route.
When you say DLC I take that to mean substantial stuff not cosmetics.

They are adding cosmetic loot drops at some point so some of it will be free but yeah most of it will be microtransactions as that is how they plan to pay for the free DLC.

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Re: Anthem [PC, PS4, XBone] - February 22nd 2019

Post by Sly Boots » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:58 pm

My point really here is that the content seems to be so sparse (basically non-existent after the story has been done and max level achieved) and the announced updates in the roadmap so uninspired, that it seems like the only real future for the game is going to be a big overhaul of its loot system (new, unique skins, exciting new effects), interesting new dungeons, raids, new enemy types and bosses, maybe entirely new storylines and new areas akin to what GW2 has done with its seasons... I have a hard time believing this is stuff EA is going to provide for free. They'll fudge it somehow by saying "oh, we were talking about that content, not this content."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Destiny 1&2 overhauls/expansions were paid for, were they not? That's what I think EA will be doing here. Arenanet has given loads to players for free down the years, but you still paid for Heart of Thorns and the desert one whose name escapes me right now. But I don't think EA will be doling out nearly as many freebies as that.

The alternative of course is that they give out the free stuff they have mentioned and then abandon the game like they did MEA because no-one's playing it.

I think they've badly misjudged and that they've given players so little initially and implemented a lot of stuff so badly this will be swiftly forgotten.

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Re: Anthem [PC, PS4, XBone] - February 22nd 2019

Post by Medicine Man » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:00 pm


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Re: Anthem [PC, PS4, XBone] - February 22nd 2019

Post by Snowy » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:21 pm

Sly Boots wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:58 pm
d the desert one whose name escapes me right now.
Path of Fire.

We still need that bimble through GW2 some time (I am on right now :))
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Re: Anthem [PC, PS4, XBone] - February 22nd 2019

Post by Mantis » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:23 pm

It's perfectly understandable that a public company like EA will be aiming to deliver the minimum product to hook people when you consider that their primary and preferred method of generating revenue nowadays is from a constant trickle of microtransactions spread over several years; not only is it more lucrative in the long run (to the extent that they give their games away for free if you subscribe to their service now) but it also reduces a lot of risk for investors as they aren't reliant on sales spikes when games release for the bulk of their revenue anymore.

It's a stupid long term tactic and actually a very bad business decision when they tread the line as closely as EA seems to be doing though, particularly when you consider how saturated the market is for big budget action games nowadays; if they don't at least try and hook players on the initial release by putting out a top tier experience then they will shoot themselves in the foot regarding future revenue as nobody will stick around to play their rubbish game for very long. Compound the loss of future revenues with the fact that EA's new distribution model for their titles means that a lot of people won't be paying £50 up front for the game anymore thanks to Origin Access and this game stands to be an utter catastrophe for them.

Not a brilliant indicator for success, but Anthem currently only has 12,000 viewers on Twitch. It's currently sitting at the 21st most viewed game. That is seriously poor for what should be one of the most exciting games currently available.
Sly Boots wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:58 pm
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Destiny 1&2 overhauls/expansions were paid for, were they not?
All of the significant content patches for both Destiny games have always been paid-for expansion packs.

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Re: Anthem [PC, PS4, XBone] - February 22nd 2019

Post by Sly Boots » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:23 pm

Snowy wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:21 pm
Sly Boots wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:58 pm
d the desert one whose name escapes me right now.
Path of Fire.

We still need that bimble through GW2 some time (I am on right now :))
Oh, go on then, I was looking for an excuse to bail on what I was working on :lol:

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Re: Anthem [PC, PS4, XBone] - February 22nd 2019

Post by DjchunKfunK » Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:58 pm

Division improved via free updates, you don't have to make a course correction via paid for stuff. There is also a big difference between Destiny and Anthem as Destiny had a good base to work of off, Anthem is coming from a much lower point. I think if they try to sell people a reboot of the game then the series is done. I think that the fact Anthem has been received so badly means free stuff is more likely in order to try and build up a player base.

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