Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice

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Mantis
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Re: Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice

Post by Mantis » Mon Mar 25, 2019 1:43 pm

Wrathbone wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:29 pm
Mantis wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:02 am
Have to say I completely disagree. Not every game needs to be for everyone and games are an artistic expression as much as throwaway pieces of fun.
With the solution I proposed, the original artistic vision still exists. Nothing changes that. If I paint a shitty version of the Mona Lisa in crayon, the original Mona Lisa does not cease to be any less artistically valid.

What about translations of novels into different languages? Should we discourage that because the artistic vision of the original language is lost somewhat in translation? Accessibility does not compromise art.
Translations are done after the fact though. And as I said above, even something as simple as putting checkpoints before boss fights would have a fairly significant impact on how the game is developed, plus the additional resources required.

I'm not against games having easy modes or multiple difficulties. But ultimately From games have gone from strength to strength with small improvements to functionality since Demon Souls and Dark Souls 1, and one thing that they've never compromised on is the level of challenge. I'd say that their games are actually getting harder with each new franchise, and they're selling more too, so clearly they're filling a niche in the market that is very much desired.

Consistently making their games challenging is a sign that the team at From clearly have an idea that this is simply how they are meant to be; and for someone to ask for them to be made more accessible is actually the equivalent to standing behind Da Vinci whilst he paints the Mona Lisa and saying "Could you make her eyebrows a bit darker and give her a bigger nose".

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Re: Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice

Post by Wrathbone » Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:21 pm

I respectfully disagree in every possible way. :lol:

We're never going to agree on this one.

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Re: Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice

Post by DjchunKfunK » Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:51 pm

Wrathbone wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 12:29 pm
Mantis wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:02 am
Have to say I completely disagree. Not every game needs to be for everyone and games are an artistic expression as much as throwaway pieces of fun.
With the solution I proposed, the original artistic vision still exists. Nothing changes that. If I paint a shitty version of the Mona Lisa in crayon, the original Mona Lisa does not cease to be any less artistically valid.

What about translations of novels into different languages? Should we discourage that because the artistic vision of the original language is lost somewhat in translation? Accessibility does not compromise art.
There are examples where translation has very much changed the way a book can be read.

As for the painting analogy it's not the same as the situation here as you are changing the piece of work itself by asking for something to be added in this way. You are asking the game to be balanced in a completely different way. If difficulty modes were to be added to, say Dark Souls, they would need to be done properly. You can't just whack up HP and stick in a load more bonfires after the fact as it probably wouldn't be any fun to play, it needs to be done properly. To do that would then change the way the game is designed and impact the 'standard' difficulty and create a different game.

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Re: Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice

Post by Wrathbone » Mon Mar 25, 2019 3:23 pm

DjchunKfunK wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 2:51 pm
As for the painting analogy it's not the same as the situation here as you are changing the piece of work itself by asking for something to be added in this way. You are asking the game to be balanced in a completely different way.
No, I'm not. I'm specifically not asking that. What I'm suggesting is a mode which - and I stress this yet again - does not change the existing way it works, but offers a separate mode where it autosaves before a boss. It wouldn't need to do anything fancy, just simply treat it like a bonfire. Whether that changes game balance or artistic intention I couldn't give a flying crap - that's achieved through the original mode. The original mode is not for me; my suggested mode is not for the people who want it to remain unchanged. Think of it as a separate game entirely: Dim Souls.

Note also that I'm not demanding the developers do this because obviously I have no entitlement to it. All I'm suggesting is a hypothetical way so that people like me could enjoy the game while not compromising a single thing about the existing game (which, again, would not change), which would also require minimal development.

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Re: Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice

Post by Sly Boots » Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:57 am

"From games aren't hard or unfair":

https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/this-hilario ... ame-thing/

¬_¬

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Re: Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice

Post by Mantis » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:31 pm

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019 ... tic-vision

We already had this debate, but interesting that this game has prompted it within the wider community.

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