General TV News

[Hatredsheart]

https://scifibulletin.com/2022/02/12/ri ... n-studios/

[Rossell]

I'm actually gutted it's not Vilenueve.

[Alan]

Is Scott actually writing/directing though? Could be just that he has green lit it? Also, has Scott made anything that wasn’t shite in 20 years other than the Martian?

[Hatredsheart]

I'm actually gutted it's not Vilenueve.

Same. The guy has an amazing talent.

[Maturin]

Also, has Scott made anything that wasn’t shite in 20 years other than the Martian?

The director's cut of Kingdom of Heaven is a superb film. Better than the Martian IMO.

But yeah, apart from those two films (and one or two others which were... okay) there's been an awful lot of disappointing nonsense. I swear a lot of them are down to poor scripts though. Always been his biggest weakness maybe; not being able to judge scripts.

[Wrathbone]

Not enough to get a real grasp of things, but as you might expect the internet has gone bananas in all the worst ways over the inclusion of non-white characters. To me it boils down to this: Including non-white characters in this adaptation does stretch (or possibly contradict) the interpretation of the source material, but is that actually a problem?

I don't think it is, at least not one that I care about. I've seen comments from people citing Tolkien's description of elves (all elves, apparently) being pale due to their strong connection with moonlight. Now I've read most of Tolkien's extended works, including the Silmarillion last year, and while elves may well be described in that way I can't honestly recall their paleness being all that important to events. Their connection to moonlight and starlight certainly is, but I don't see how not reflecting that connection in their skin colour really matters. Not to the extent that some people are frothing at the mouth over it, anyway.

I fully expect there will be plenty of genuine problems in the series to get uppity about.

[Achtung Englander]

I am looking forward to it. The diversity thing needs to be handled with care because this is still a medieval setting with regional differences that did not mix. So having black elves in a snowy mountain regions in the north of Middle Earth makes no sense and is just jarring. I am more for keeping story elements thought out and consistent. Similary having pale skinned people in the south in Harad also makes no sense.

[Wrathbone]

I am more for keeping story elements thought out and consistent.

Agreed - as long as their adaptive choices are well-considered and effectively implemented, I'll be happy.

[Mantis]

The thing is, medieval regional differences are kind of irrelevant as a defence when it is literally a made up fantasy world. I can see why it might be a bit bothersome if the entire narrative was themed around the idea of elves being pale skinned, but it's not, it's a tiny descriptive detail linked with a little background lore about the moon. Even if it explicitly states that they're all pale skinned as a result of this, it's hardly a big deal to change the narrative slightly because it's such a minor part of the overall world. My reaction to seeing a non-white elf in the show would simply be "Oh, well look at that, not all elves are white" and then I'd forget about it and just move on with watching the show. I can't really think of any fantasy novels where the plot is so thematically built around the idea of race that this would ever be an issue.

And to be honest, migration of different ethnic groups has happened in the real world for millennia. It is literally how we spread across the planet as a species. The idea that there might be the odd black elf or white person from Harad isn't really all that far fetched. There have always been minority groups that have moved around or been displaced.

I feel like people who leap to being outraged on the basis of "Well it's not following the lore!" are just using it to try and thinly disguise racist or xenophobic sentiments. Very few people ever question or get outraged about opposite events where a role is whitewashed. It's always minority actors who have to justify their own existence and whenever anyone draws any attention to them not being cast correctly it always makes me a little disappointed that we're still seeing this argument crop up.

[Raid]

I'm saying this entirely as a layman not massively familiar with the source material (I've seen the modern films, that's it), but when it comes down to it you have to decide whether elements of the source material are important enough (ie: have an impact on the fiction) to not consider the attitudes of the intended modern audience. If it's a question of the elves being connected to the moon and that fact has no bearing on the story, I say ignore it. I don't see living in a snowy environment having any bearing unless elves have some sort of natural or magical camouflage - given elven lifespans I just can't see them adapting to the environment through evolution.

There is, and please correct me if I'm wrong but I did try to look this up, not a single black actor visible on screen during the Lord of the Rings film trilogy (a Maori actor played the Witch King, but you don't see his face). That was one of the biggest media phenomena of the era, and I don't think it's too much of an ask for more representation this time around.

Edit: Wrote this before I saw Mantis' post. Decided to post it anyway.

[Wrathbone]

I wonder how many of the people getting in a huff about it because it deviates from the source material were similarly outraged by Peter Jackson's adaptive choices. The youthful features of Elijah Wood bear little resemblance to the 50 year old Frodo who sets out from the Shire in the book, even taking into account the extended lifespan of hobbits compared to humans. Going beyond the superficial, film Aragorn is nothing like book Aragorn, with the former being a mournful reluctant hero and the latter being a spirited beacon of hope who has decided to embrace his choice to be king.

Maybe the current naysayers would have been angrier back then if Aragorn hadn't been white.

[Maturin]

There is, and please correct me if I'm wrong but I did try to look this up, not a single black actor visible on screen during the Lord of the Rings film trilogy (a Maori actor played the Witch King, but you don't see his face). That was one of the biggest media phenomena of the era, and I don't think it's too much of an ask for more representation this time around.

It should also be less of an issue with this series, since much of it is knowingly original and only loosely based on some ideas from the ancient history before the Lord of the Rings. There's a whole load of invented characters and story lines - it's basically a LotR-themed original show from what I've seen so far. I don't really see how there can be any reason for feeling it's incorrect for there to be a diverse cast. It's already a million miles away from Tolkien anyway.

I should say, I have absolutely no problem with Peter Jackson's all white cast for the LotR trilogy. Those 3 books are very clear about its world-building and the racial make-up of its characters & races, and the geographical/historical reasons for their being so (regardless of whether some of us may think Tolkien could have perhaps been a bit more 'adventurous' with that aspect). The casting is sound. I would have cast those films the same 20 years ago, and would do the same tomorrow.

I think it's fine to be mostly true to an established source material and it's also fine if you want to try something different with casting. Neither should be treated as suspicious in any way, in my opinion.

[Raid]

There is, and please correct me if I'm wrong but I did try to look this up, not a single black actor visible on screen during the Lord of the Rings film trilogy (a Maori actor played the Witch King, but you don't see his face). That was one of the biggest media phenomena of the era, and I don't think it's too much of an ask for more representation this time around.

I should say, I have absolutely no problem with Peter Jackson's all white cast for the LotR trilogy. Those 3 books are very clear about its world-building and the racial make-up of its characters & races, and the geographical/historical reasons for their being so (regardless of whether some of us may think Tolkien could have perhaps been a bit more 'adventurous' with that aspect). The casting is sound. I would have cast those films the same 20 years ago, and would do the same tomorrow.

This absolutely isn't directed at you Maturin, it's more a general comment on why this is an issue in the first place.

I have no issue with any individual cast member of the LotR trilogy; everyone in those films is amazing. But representation isn't about individual performances, it's about giving people who aren't white someone they can identify with. White men don't tend to think of this as a problem because we have a hundred years of cinema where we're more than adequately represented, and while I'm speaking hypothetically here because this is an issue that I am aware of but that doesn't affect me, that's not the case for huge portions of the audience. A decision has to be made as to how much of that lore and character history is important when producing a show or film for a modern audience. As I said I haven't read any of Tolkien's work, but I'm willing to bet it's not *that* important to the characters' actions or philosophy.

There's only one character in Jackson's LotR trilogy I wouldn't recast with a black actor, and that's Gandalf, purely because his reappearance halfway through as "Gandalf the White" might be... awkward.

[Maturin]

That's okay, we can agree to disagree. I think it's great for new fantasy IP's to be as diverse as possible while still allowing creative adaptations of established works to be true to the original vision, without any risk of outrage. The two can coexist together without any problem. There's such a vast breadth of fictional production nowadays, representation is a much smaller issue than it used to be. You only have to look through the cast of many modern dramas and series to see how much that has changed.

And, in this instance (the subject of the actor's racial make-up matching the time/setting/source character for example), I don't think that has anything to do with being white. There have been articles from black authors stating they're fine with with appropriate Film/TV casting for the period/setting, plus most modern drama is contemporary anyway, so casting is pretty diverse regardless.

So having an all white cast for something like Lord of the Rings doesn't seem problematic to me at all.

[Achtung Englander]

Personally I don't really care what is the racial mix is for The Rings of Power, I just want it to be more LOTR than The Hobbit....oh please

5 seasons have been greenlight, so its going to have a long run regardless.