Films that would not be made today

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DjchunKfunK
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Re: Films that would not be made today

Post by DjchunKfunK » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:32 pm

Achtung Englander wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:10 pm


Personally I don't a rats arse about any of this shit. I am all for women having more power on the condition that equal means just that...equal. I am all for equal pay if that means more women do the same hours as men or do similar pressurised work. I am for equal rights if that means changing the divorce laws. I am for women empowerment if that means more women on front line war zones. Or we can just accept that men and women are different. I am a man, so the bias is already in my favour, so its no skin off my nose what women want. It's not my battle to win.
Are you serious? Are you suggesting women don't work as hard as men or are under the same pressures already?!

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Achtung Englander
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Re: Films that would not be made today

Post by Achtung Englander » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:15 pm

women do work as hard as men, but in general, men do more riskier jobs and from a purely anecdotal pov the people who work longer hours have predominately been men. Go into an office after 7pm and the only people left would most likely be a man. Most night shift work are men. It is not a point about working "harder" it is about recognising that men and women are built differently yet we now need to pretend this not the case and everything should be equal. Construction work is male dominated while HR jobs is female driven. Most finance "city" jobs are done by men while women gravitate towards marketing. These jobs will have differing pay scales on the difficulty of the work, so in general men will get paid more than women because the genders prefer to do jobs that suit their biology.

In my 20 plus years career I have worked for women who are successful and earn a lot more than me but I never once looked down on them as inferior to me because they had already proven to me they succeeded while I had more to do. I do not like the fact that women who do the same job as a man gets paid less. This is stupid, wrong and unfair. The point about equality is that it starts from a position that equality can be achieved, but men and women are not equal. We are not built to be equal. Nature selected men and women to be different for a reason. So to argue that everything should be equal is absurd. Today we are given a diet where women are all gun-ho action superheros that is all kick--ass and doing it for themselves. That is fine by me, as I said, I really could not care less, but if women truly want equality with men than that will come with a price that 3.5 billion may not be willing to accept.

In my household I do all the cooking and most of the tidying up. My partner does the laundry and the cleaning. So we share the chores. Yet I work 50 hours a week while she works 20 out of choice. I pay 70% of the bills. She pays 30%. We are not equal.
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Strudel
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Re: Films that would not be made today

Post by Strudel » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:57 pm

Christ, I feel sorry for your partner.

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Re: Films that would not be made today

Post by Achtung Englander » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:11 pm

Don't be. She knows she on to a good thing.
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Re: Films that would not be made today

Post by Sly Boots » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:37 am

It must be a magical time in her life, not being thought of as an equal by the man she lives with.

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Re: Films that would not be made today

Post by Wrathbone » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:50 am

And obviously your value as a human being is determined by the hours you work, the salary you earn and the percentage of bills you pay.

Achtung, has your account been hacked by a troll?


EDIT: Nope, can't leave it there. Are you seriously implying that the reason your partner chooses to work 20 hours a week and you choose to work 50 hours a week is because she's a woman and you're a man?

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Re: Films that would not be made today

Post by Jez » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:38 am

Guys any danger of toning down the judging a bit. :) The guy (and wife assumedly) chooses to run the house as he sees fit. I think his opinions are being inflated here.
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Re: Films that would not be made today

Post by Stormbringer » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:44 am

Looks like TGA has become an extension of Twitter.
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Re: Films that would not be made today

Post by Sly Boots » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:56 am

Jez wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:38 am
Guys any danger of toning down the judging a bit. :) The guy (and wife assumedly) chooses to run the house as he sees fit. I think his opinions are being inflated here.
Sorry, Jez, I usually don't like to get involved in the forum drama-type discussions as I don't like to cause offence, but in this case I find the attitude that 'women aren't the equals of men because I have arbitrarily ascribed greater worth to the types of job typically carried out more by men' absolutely appalling. Aside from the ridiculous unfairness of that argument it completely overlooks roles more frequently carried out by women, particularly nursing but also teaching, that are far harder than the jobs most men work, with longer hours, while being obscenely undervalued and underpaid.

As for domestic arrangements, to each their own and if they're both happy then ok. But it's not dissimilar to something my dad would have said, prior to being divorced by my mum 22 years ago. I can't think of many women that would be happy to not be considered equal by their partner.

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Re: Films that would not be made today

Post by DjchunKfunK » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:08 am

Achtung wrote: Most finance "city" jobs are done by men while women gravitate towards marketing.
Have you ever stopped to think that this is perhaps because women are not given the same opportunities as men and it's not always a choice?

Not all men and women are created exactly the same. People should be free to peruse the careers and opportunities that they want, it should not be gated or defined by their gender.

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Re: Films that would not be made today

Post by Strudel » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:31 am

Sly Boots wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:56 am
Jez wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:38 am
Guys any danger of toning down the judging a bit. :) The guy (and wife assumedly) chooses to run the house as he sees fit. I think his opinions are being inflated here.
Sorry, Jez, I usually don't like to get involved in the forum drama-type discussions as I don't like to cause offence, but in this case I find the attitude that 'women aren't the equals of men because I have arbitrarily ascribed greater worth to the types of job typically carried out more by men' absolutely appalling. Aside from the ridiculous unfairness of that argument it completely overlooks roles more frequently carried out by women, particularly nursing but also teaching, that are far harder than the jobs most men work, with longer hours, while being obscenely undervalued and underpaid.

As for domestic arrangements, to each their own and if they're both happy then ok. But it's not dissimilar to something my dad would have said, prior to being divorced by my mum 22 years ago. I can't think of many women that would be happy to not be considered equal by their partner.
Exactly. I decided not to respond any further last night because it would have just been a heated rant, but there's a difference between accepting differences of opinion and letting blatant misogyny and bigotry pass unchallenged.

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Re: Films that would not be made today

Post by Achtung Englander » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:49 am

oh my god !

I see my partner as an equal in regards to things outside money. I love her. She is the mother of my child. Literally all the decisions I make is with her. You guys have completely misread what I said. We are equal in terms of what we are outside of work.

I earn more than her, work more hours and still do half the household chores. We live in a 4 bedroom house of which my deposit was 3 times hers and as I said I pay more than 2/3 of the bills. So if I am her equal - we would be earning 50% less, I would be working less than half what I am doing now and we would be forced to move to smaller accommodation. She we are not equal, I am doing more and have done more than her - it is a fact.

Similarly I am not equal to a millionaire because I do not have a million pounds cash. That does not mean I am a lesser person but it does mean that I have fewer options open to me, so I am not equal.

I said women who earn less than men who do the same job is morally wrong BUT in general, lets be honest, women like to choose a career path that tends to be different to men that pays LESS because the nature of the job requires less compensation. Not some women. Not some men. There are always exceptions. In general. Equal pay to me only comes from a pov that men and women can physically, emotionally and desire to do the same type of job on a general level. That does not happen.

Again women who earn less than men for doing the same job is wrong, morally wrong and stupid but society is geared towards supporting women. Statistically there are fewer female suicides,women are out performing men in studies and the divorce laws is completely in favour towards women (ask any divorced man in this country).

I am 100% for equality of wages in the professions but if women gravitate towards less demanding jobs - they should expect to earn less. I am not talking about men and women doing the same jobs, I am talking about the jobs that the majority of men and women find appealing.

If men stop women from doing a job a man can do because they are women than they are sexist pig and I am not defending that in the slightest. Women want equality. Fine I am all for that, but does mean equality in everything otherwise, by its nature, there is no equality. Women have had it very tough, and in some cases, still do, but if sisters are doing it for themselves I see very precious little of sisterly love here guys. When I started working 20 years ago my first job was in HR. The female / male ratio was 90/10. In those 2 years all I witnessed was bitching, back-stabbing, hatred and clikey clikey groups. I left that to work in finance where the ratio was 10/90 and all the men just got on with it. The fact is I worked 10 times harder in finance than in HR. IMO women are confused. They want to be successful. They want to have a family. They want to be compensated. They want to be looked after. They want to be married. They want their independence. They want to get ahead. They want to go home. They want to live in big houses and have lots of things. They want to go out. They want to stay in. They want us to help around the house. They want nice holidays. They want us to pay for things. They want us to open the door. They want us not open the door. It is an endless of want want, want.

....and men just want to be left alone.

Men are not superior to women but we are made differently. Biologically we are different, physically and mentally (our brains are wired) different. Nature made us that way. If we conform society so that we do away with this difference than men will become more woman like and women more manlike. To me I prefer women to be women.
Last edited by Achtung Englander on Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Films that would not be made today

Post by Wrathbone » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:14 am

in general, lets be honest, women like to choose a career path that tends to be different to men that pays LESS because the nature of the job requires less compensation.
No. Good lord, no. This is simply not true.

Women's rights have only been recognised in the last century (and only in certain parts of the world). For the rest of human history, men have oppressed women in pretty much every imaginable way. It's been culturally and institutionally inbuilt for millennia. The reason women do not have higher-paid, higher-status jobs than men in general is not, is not, is absolutely definitely I fucking promise you NOT because that's what they aim for. Believing otherwise, I'm sorry to say, makes you part of the problem.

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Re: Films that would not be made today

Post by Sly Boots » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:31 am

Achtung, I really think you need to get out of the mindset that income = equality. That attitude is basically Victorian. With the hours you work I'm guessing that your partner shoulders a greater share of the childcare, and as the parent of two young children (5 & 7), I'm intimately aware of how much work, effort and frustration that involves. I imagine your partner would be incredibly hurt to learn that you feel there is inequality in your relationship because you make the greater financial contribution to the household... particularly if her choice to work part-time was made due to raising a child.

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Re: Films that would not be made today

Post by Achtung Englander » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:36 am

OK

As I said I am all for equal pay. Institutional sexism is an issue that must be eroded and trust me I am not part of the problem because I have not hired anyone in my life and if I did I would choose the best candidate.

That does not counter my point that equality for women must now be addressed in all aspects of society and law otherwise there is no equality. That is a cultural shift they may not want to go to. I honestly don't know. If women want true equality to a man, go for it. Nothing is stopping them in this country now. I expect more women plumbers, electricians, brick layers, construction jobs and more men in primary schools, humanities and flower shops. You may find that argument trivial but I am serious.

We just passed a civil partner law so men and women have the same rights as a marriage without getting married. So there is quite literally nothing to stop women now for getting want they want and if the sisters want to help each other in once was male dominated roles, let them. The past is dead. There are laws now in place that is completely in favour for women and helping women to achieve success. Its up to them.
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