Avengers 4 Endgame

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Hatredsheart
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Avengers 4 Endgame

Post by Hatredsheart » Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:13 pm

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Wrathbone
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Re: Avengers 4 Endgame

Post by Wrathbone » Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:33 pm

I'm very much looking forward to this. I'm not sure why they made such a big deal about the title, though. Endgame isn't exactly a spoiler and doesn't seem especially significant considering they've made a big deal about this being the end of the first arc of the MCU.

But more importantly, Cap shaved! :o

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Snowy
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Re: Avengers 4 Endgame

Post by Snowy » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:02 pm

I just don't get them. Don't see the appeal whatsoever.

/gets coat
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Re: Avengers 4 Endgame

Post by Sly Boots » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:05 pm

Snowy wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:02 pm
I just don't get them. Don't see the appeal whatsoever.

/gets coat
Same mate. Only superhero films I've made the effort to say in recent years are the Deadpool ones, which are great but atypical of the genre.

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Tichinde
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Re: Avengers 4 Endgame

Post by Tichinde » Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:26 am

I think a lot of it is comic book nostalgia presented on the big screen.
Which is awesome.
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Wrathbone
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Re: Avengers 4 Endgame

Post by Wrathbone » Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:11 pm

For me it's not nostalgia because I never really got into superhero comics. I think I enjoy them because it's our modern day mythology of the mightiest, the bravest, the smartest, the most devious - all the classic archetypes maximised and personified and pitted against each other in tests of virtue. Superheroes are our Ancient Greek pantheon.

I also like watching people in silly costumes battering each other in increasingly silly ways.

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Snowy
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Re: Avengers 4 Endgame

Post by Snowy » Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:52 pm

I loved comic books as a kid, but never really had any time for the Avengers. Captain America had a shield ffs, that wasn't cool then and still isn't. Hulk is a pretty dull character, and the others I never really read. I liked Daredevil, Punisher, Spiderman, Batman, the Fantastic 4, X-Men etc when I was younger, but the films tend to bog down in tedious back-story rather than just launch into "Hey, you know who they are and why, so lets have a great story with some of the old villains".

Plus you have bloody Iron Man in the avengers - always a shit superhero and old Quippy Von Quipston in the films just irritates the shit out of me.
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Re: Avengers 4 Endgame

Post by Raid » Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:17 pm

I never read the comics as a kid, everything I know about superheroes comes from the films (and the 90s X-Men and Spiderman cartoons). The MCU has done a fantastic job of making characters I once thought of as incredibly corny (basically any of the alien or magic-themed ones) quite cool. I was always going to like Iron Man; he's technology-based, he flies and Stark is incredibly sarcastic, but I thought the likes of Thor and Doctor Strange were just silly. An alien based on human mythology who wears a silly helmet, and a wizard with a sentient cape? For someone without nostalgia to fall back on, Marvel have done a stellar job of making them believable and cool.

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Re: Avengers 4 Endgame

Post by Wrathbone » Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:09 pm

Snowy wrote:
Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:52 pm
the films tend to bog down in tedious back-story rather than just launch into "Hey, you know who they are and why, so lets have a great story with some of the old villains".
That's definitely been a nuisance, but they seem to be getting better with it. Spiderman: Homecoming, for instance, didn't even mention Uncle Ben. For the sake of sanity, though, we should never have to be subjected to yet another retelling of Batman's parents getting murdered. As if someone would watch it and go "Oh, so that's why he doesn't like criminals!"

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Raid
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Re: Avengers 4 Endgame

Post by Raid » Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:37 pm

Producers are starting to realise that at least. Spiderman Homecoming is the best example, but Superman didn't get an origin story in Batman vs Superman (from what I remember), and Batman's was both mercifully short and I think justified given that film's pivotal moment (although if I ever see another shot of pearls falling to the floor in slow motion I might just stop watching DC films all together). I agree that in some cases origin stories are just not necessary, and a lot of films have felt a bit hamstrung by needing to force one in. Some, like Solo and Star Trek '09, were ruined by focusing entirely on the origin story, leaving little run time for anything new and interesting.

I really do look forward to when entertainment media stops trying to leverage nostalgia for its appeal. I think we've gone past the point where it's palatable, and producers need to start taking risks again if they want to be successful. The rumours of major Marvel characters being killed off permanently in this next Avengers film (my money's on Tony Stark and Steve Rogers) make it sound like this is what they're trying to do, and maybe Marvel can start giving screentime to a new cast. They're already onto a winner with Tom Holland's Spiderman, here's hoping Brie Larson's Captain Marvel takes off too.

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Re: Avengers 4 Endgame

Post by Maturin » Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:54 pm

I feel a bit like Old Man Yells at Cloud, but I just can't get on with all these multi-superhero crossover films. The couple I've seen have just been an ill-focused, rushed mess, regardless of how entertaining bits of it might have been.

I find films like Batman Begins infinitely superior to all these new ones. The first couple of Raimi's Spiderman films were great too - really well-focused and had a pleasing narrative running through them. I quite liked the original Ironman too. They all had something in common; the central character had room to breathe and develop.

But the Avengers films I've seen both just seemed like 2 hours of STUFF HAPPENING!. I dunno, guess it's just not my cup of tea.

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Strudel
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Re: Avengers 4 Endgame

Post by Strudel » Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:08 pm

I feel similarly to Maturin. The early rebirth of the super hero films were fantastic, and although the Raimi Spiderman films probably don't hold up over time as much as Batman Begins, they were a very fresh take on the genre when they landed and they did it well. Of all the Marvel films, I think the only ones I've liked are Iron Man, Avengers Assemble, and Thor Ragnarok. The rest are all basically the same story as Iron Man but with a different hero super-imposed on the role. They invariably end with just a big fight as well; they're just so boring now. I think I've watched most of them when I've managed to get a copy and don't want to actually think too much on an evening but I've certainly got no drive to see Endgame in the cinema.

They will at least finally kill off some characters but only because of contracts ending and some of the actors being dead set against doing any more films (hello RDJ!).

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Re: Avengers 4 Endgame

Post by Sly Boots » Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:15 pm

Maturin wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:54 pm
I feel a bit like Old Man Yells at Cloud, but I just can't get on with all these multi-superhero crossover films. The couple I've seen have just been an ill-focused, rushed mess, regardless of how entertaining bits of it might have been.

I find films like Batman Begins infinitely superior to all these new ones. The first couple of Raimi's Spiderman films were great too - really well-focused and had a pleasing narrative running through them. I quite liked the original Ironman too. They all had something in common; the central character had room to breathe and develop.

But the Avengers films I've seen both just seemed like 2 hours of STUFF HAPPENING!. I dunno, guess it's just not my cup of tea.
This is my position as well. I enjoyed all those films you listed as well (as well as Deadpool 1 & 2), so it's not superhero films per se that I don't get on with, more it's these big franchises where you're expected to watch half a dozen other films to understand vaguely what's going on with the headline film that ends up just being chaotic, largely incomprehensible and you can't develop any emotion towards any of the characters due to their limited screen-time.

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Strudel
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Re: Avengers 4 Endgame

Post by Strudel » Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:20 pm

I think their huge inter-woven story is 80% of the problem with them. Like Age of Ultron - it was a horrific under-utilisation of James Spader, who is exceptionally charismatic and a brilliant screen presence even when it's just his voice, but by having so many "main" characters needing some screen time it reduces them all to about 7 minutes each. And half of that is just Big End Battle.

If they want to do ensemble casts then they need to accept that in some of the films they're going to need those big names to just sit in the back and shut the fuck up because there isn't the time to flesh out a story for everyone in every film.

Basically they need to go watch Star Trek TNG and DS9 and see how to do ensemble story telling. ¬_¬

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Re: Avengers 4 Endgame

Post by Raid » Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:52 pm

Strudel wrote:
Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:20 pm
Basically they need to go watch Star Trek TNG and DS9 and see how to do ensemble story telling. ¬_¬
Yes, they are good examples of ensemble cast storytelling across 264 combined hours of runtime. ¬_¬

I can understand the criticisms of the ensemble films, there really is not enough screen time in a single film for the number of characters they're shoehorning in. Infinity War is easily the best example of this, where the pacing is so crazy that it's difficult to remember everything that actually happens... but I actually think it worked. I was expecting it to be a real clusterfuck, but they didn't need to spend any time whatsoever on character building, because there've been 19 films of that already. It would be largely incomprehensible to anyone who hasn't been watching the series for ten years, but the intended audience has done just that.

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