Yeah, that's fair - in his first championship-winning season he took out a couple of cars, including his team mate Webber. I do think he stabilised for a few years, though, much like Verstappen is doing now, and that's why it's surprising that in the last couple of years Vettel has reverted back to being clumsy at times. He seems to be pushing too hard and going for reckless, desperate moves rather than clinically waiting for the right opportunity. I really don't understand what he thought was going to happen yesterday when he was inches away from Verstappen while approaching a braking point.DjchunKfunK wrote: ↑Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:06 amI don't think it is so much Vettel getting worse, he's always been liable to the odd mistake, it's just when he first came into the sport he was in the best car so mistakes were mitigated by the fact he was winning a lot of races. Now when he isn't winning races the mistakes look a lot worse.
The F1 thread
Re: The F1 thread
Re: The F1 thread
He got married in the Atlantic?
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Re: The F1 thread
Yep, less chance of crashing into anything.
Re: The F1 thread
It's funny; every time I've considered not bothering to watch a race, it's ended up being fantastic. I was completely fed up after qualifying yesterday, with Ferrari squandering another weekend where they seemed to be the fastest team. What we got today was probably the craziest race I've ever watched. How often do we see genuine fuckups from Hamilton these days, and multiple times in the same race at that? We had spins and crashes from all of the front-runners, and a midfielder on the podium.
Kvyat, Sainz, Stroll, and Albon all had a shot at that final podium spot this week, with Stroll brilliantly defending against the Mercedes of Bottas but falling just short. Raikkonen had a fantastic race for Alfa, although sadly he was penalised after the race along with his teammate, promoting both Hamilton and Kubica to the points positions. Yes, Williams got a point, and Russell is going to be kicking himself that it wasn't his given how much he's dominated his teammate this year.
The big story I suppose is that Red Bull, or specifically Verstappen's Red Bull, seems to be becoming a genuine contender for race victories. Honda seemed to have given them the oomph they need on a Saturday to compete with Mercedes and Ferrari, and Max is stellar in the race. It's looking ever more likely that the second seat is going to someone else before the end of the year though; Gasly just isn't performing, and now that his teammate is winning races his stock is falling ever further. Kvyat grabbing Toro Rosso's second ever podium is surely going to be eye opening.
Kvyat, Sainz, Stroll, and Albon all had a shot at that final podium spot this week, with Stroll brilliantly defending against the Mercedes of Bottas but falling just short. Raikkonen had a fantastic race for Alfa, although sadly he was penalised after the race along with his teammate, promoting both Hamilton and Kubica to the points positions. Yes, Williams got a point, and Russell is going to be kicking himself that it wasn't his given how much he's dominated his teammate this year.
The big story I suppose is that Red Bull, or specifically Verstappen's Red Bull, seems to be becoming a genuine contender for race victories. Honda seemed to have given them the oomph they need on a Saturday to compete with Mercedes and Ferrari, and Max is stellar in the race. It's looking ever more likely that the second seat is going to someone else before the end of the year though; Gasly just isn't performing, and now that his teammate is winning races his stock is falling ever further. Kvyat grabbing Toro Rosso's second ever podium is surely going to be eye opening.
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DjchunKfunK
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Re: The F1 thread
Missed the race but I'm not surprised Hamilton made some mistakes, the guy had been ill all weekend and driving in the wet requires you to be at the top of your game.
I'm not so sure I agree about Red Bull being a contender for race wins regularly. The last few races they have been up there but they are also considered tracks at which Mercedes struggle and then there were mistakes in Germany. Also Ferrari have again been messing up, combine the two and it makes the Red Bull look faster than it possibly is. Barring mess-ups I don't expect him to be in the mix most weeks.
I'm not so sure I agree about Red Bull being a contender for race wins regularly. The last few races they have been up there but they are also considered tracks at which Mercedes struggle and then there were mistakes in Germany. Also Ferrari have again been messing up, combine the two and it makes the Red Bull look faster than it possibly is. Barring mess-ups I don't expect him to be in the mix most weeks.
Re: The F1 thread
I think a good reason not to discount Red Bull is that in the V6 era they have excelled at leaping upon opportunities. Whenever Mercedes have an off day, Red Bull are always there ready to pounce on a victory. And Verstappen's talent is really shining through now, moreso than any other driver I'd argue.
Yesterday's race was pure chaos. I don't recall ever seeing a race with that many pitstops, and the conditions were so changeable and the cars so reactive to that change that at least some of it was dumb luck (good and bad). Hamilton did well to bring his car home at all given how ill he clearly was and how tricky these cars appear to be in the wet.
Yesterday's race was pure chaos. I don't recall ever seeing a race with that many pitstops, and the conditions were so changeable and the cars so reactive to that change that at least some of it was dumb luck (good and bad). Hamilton did well to bring his car home at all given how ill he clearly was and how tricky these cars appear to be in the wet.
Re: The F1 thread
Yes, the mistakes were probably down to his feeling ill (it wasn't certain that he'd even compete in qualifying, so he must have been pretty bad), and I think it's testament to his overall skill level that we're assuming that. Still, you can't blame Bottas' problems on illness, and Max still out-qualified him. Mercedes only real achilles heel has been the heat, and Saturday wasn't anywhere near the temperatures we saw on the friday, so I'm not convinced that it's the only reason. Even if the heat were the issue, it doesn't matter quite as much on single-lap pace, see the quali results for the Austrian grand prix where Lewis still placed second on Saturday, yet spent the Sunday crawling around relative to the other top teams. I do think that Red Bull have made significant progress, and while I'm perhaps being a little too optimistic, don't forget that it wasn't unusual for Red Bull to be a second slower in Q3 at the start of the year.
Re: The F1 thread
Another decent race, if not quite up to the heights of the last two. F1 still has many problems, but it's been a few years since I was as enthused about it as I am now.
Re: The F1 thread
Yeah, not quite as exciting as the last three races, but frankly on the Hungaboring I'll take what I can get.
So yeah, Max's first pole. Obviously this is a track that suits the characteristics of the Red Bull chassis and aero, but given that these aren't exactly flaws on the Mercedes I think coming first on Saturday was a pretty big deal in regards to the two cars' relative performance. Mercedes only won on the Sunday because of that brilliant strategy call; I get the feeling that Max would have managed to stay in front had Lewis not pitted towards the end (though Lewis' hard tyres were six laps younger, he seemingly burnt through a lot of that advantage right at the start of the stint).
Is it too late for the championship? Well Lewis has nearly 3 races in hand, so almost certainly, but it does at least give us more chance of some good racing at the end.
So yeah, Max's first pole. Obviously this is a track that suits the characteristics of the Red Bull chassis and aero, but given that these aren't exactly flaws on the Mercedes I think coming first on Saturday was a pretty big deal in regards to the two cars' relative performance. Mercedes only won on the Sunday because of that brilliant strategy call; I get the feeling that Max would have managed to stay in front had Lewis not pitted towards the end (though Lewis' hard tyres were six laps younger, he seemingly burnt through a lot of that advantage right at the start of the stint).
Is it too late for the championship? Well Lewis has nearly 3 races in hand, so almost certainly, but it does at least give us more chance of some good racing at the end.
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DjchunKfunK
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Re: The F1 thread
Possibly, but Max's tyres were pretty much dead towards the end so he might have struggled to stay ahead anyway. I think Lewis was faster he just couldn't get past due to the nature of the track. I think it's a tall ask to expect Max to start to challenge Lewis, we are kind of through the series of tracks that tend to favour Red Bull and once we head out of Europe I expect Max's challenge to fall away a bit.Mercedes only won on the Sunday because of that brilliant strategy call; I get the feeling that Max would have managed to stay in front had Lewis not pitted towards the end
Re: The F1 thread
The only way I see Hamilton losing the championship is if Bottas loses his seat for next year and then starts side-swiping Hamilton with incandescent rage. Doesn't seem like a nailed-on scenario.
Re: The F1 thread
No real surprise, but Gasly has been demoted back to Toro Rosso. Perhaps more surprisingly is that Red Bull are swapping him with rookie Albon instead of the more experienced Kvyat.
https://www.racefans.net/2019/08/12/red ... erstappen/
While I don't doubt that Albon has earned that seat with a reasonably strong showing in the first half of the season, I'm a little surprised that they decided it wasn't too early for a rookie to be promoted to a front-running team. It makes for one of the most exciting driver pairings on the grid, I just hope that the pressure of being Verstappen's teammate doesn't get to Albon as it seemingly did with Gasly.
https://www.racefans.net/2019/08/12/red ... erstappen/
While I don't doubt that Albon has earned that seat with a reasonably strong showing in the first half of the season, I'm a little surprised that they decided it wasn't too early for a rookie to be promoted to a front-running team. It makes for one of the most exciting driver pairings on the grid, I just hope that the pressure of being Verstappen's teammate doesn't get to Albon as it seemingly did with Gasly.
Re: The F1 thread
There was a horrific accident in the F2 Feature Race that has killed current GP3 champion Anthoine Hubert, and seriously injured fellow driver Juan Manuel Correa (although his injuries are not expected to be life threatening).
https://www.racefans.net/2019/08/31/fia ... spa-crash/
Although that story says that the incident was a collision between the two drivers, that was actually the second part of the accident, with Hubert losing grip going up Eau Rouge and striking the barriers at pretty much full racing speed at the top of the hill. Correa then ploughed into the wreck at near full speed.
When the F1 pundits say Eau Rouge is "easily flat", as in with the accelerator buried, it sorta glosses over how terrifyingly dangerous that is. I'm not suggesting that the section is unsafe exactly, but I do wonder whether this incident is going to lead to some form of reprofiling of the bend, or perhaps extension of the runoff area (if that's possible; I suspect it isn't).
https://www.racefans.net/2019/08/31/fia ... spa-crash/
Although that story says that the incident was a collision between the two drivers, that was actually the second part of the accident, with Hubert losing grip going up Eau Rouge and striking the barriers at pretty much full racing speed at the top of the hill. Correa then ploughed into the wreck at near full speed.
When the F1 pundits say Eau Rouge is "easily flat", as in with the accelerator buried, it sorta glosses over how terrifyingly dangerous that is. I'm not suggesting that the section is unsafe exactly, but I do wonder whether this incident is going to lead to some form of reprofiling of the bend, or perhaps extension of the runoff area (if that's possible; I suspect it isn't).