The F1 thread

[Raid]

The way I can see it playing out is that they walk the results back to the previous lap, but I don't think it's going to happen. I just can't see them wilfully changing their biggest accolade following their best season in decades in the courts.

What I hadn't noticed is that the FIA message actually said specific cars could overtake; I thought they'd allowed lapped cars to overtake but they ran out of track to do so. There's no way that "let the lapped cars between the race leaders overtake" is written in the rules somewhere.

I wonder if the director of Drive to Survive has stopped orgasming yet.

[eny]

I still don't get how the turn six on the inside pushing Hamilton off is a valid move:



If you are going to go in on the inside by late braking as you enter it, and not leave any track for your opponent other than go off, how is that a fair racing move?

[DjchunKfunK]

Mercedes have apparently lodged two complaints.

[Raid]

I still don't get how the turn six on the inside pushing Hamilton off is a valid move:



If you are going to go in on the inside by late braking as you enter it, and not leave any track for your opponent other than go off, how is that a fair racing move?

I take it that's the lap 1 incident? It wasn't deemed to be valid, that's why it wasn't investigated.

When Max overtook Lewis on the last lap, he ran him wide but left him space.

[eny]

Yeah, sorry, I meant the first lap. I don't understand when people say that Hamilton shouldn't have kept the "advantage", he was pushed off.

Seeing Horner gloating about in front of Mercedes made me shudder with rage tbh, I don't care who becomes champion if they've raced for it....but this is something else.

[Raid]

Yeah, sorry, I meant the first lap. I don't understand when people say that Hamilton shouldn't have kept the "advantage", he was pushed off.

As much as I agree he was out there because of Max's actions, you can't gain an advantage by going off the track. The cars were clearly together going into the corner, but Lewis seemed to have a good second or so of advantage from it.

Mercedes have lodged two complaints. One against Max for overtaking under the safety car which won't go anywhere, he arguably put a front tyre past Lewis' on the lead up to the safety car line, but Lewis was going ridiculously slowly, and they're not going to let that tiny infraction decide a championship. The second is protesting the race result based on the following article from the sporting code:

48.12 If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the message "LAPPED CARS MAY NOW OVERTAKE" has been sent to all Competitors via the official messaging system, any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the safety car

I reckon they're protesting the "any cars that have been lapped by the leader" bit, which could be defended based on how you parse "any" in that context. If it had said "every", it would have been a slam dunk.

[Wrathbone]

The FIA's thrown out both of Mercedes' protests and confirmed that Verstappen is the champion. I can't wait to see how they explain that logic, and doubtless Mercedes won't leave it there.

[Raid]

Pretty much what I expected:

(there's a 4 page document but this was the relevant bit)

I'm sure Mercedes will take this further. This judgement is only the opinion of the stewards.

Now that I've had chance to think about it a bit more, my stance has changed somewhat. I absolutely still think that it was a terrible decision and that Hamilton should be champion, but not that Masi decided the outcome of the race. He allowed the competitors to fight on the track, rather than this incredible championship to end under a safety car. Mercedes had every opportunity to pit Lewis at the same time that Max pitted for those new softs. Had they done so and Max had then not pitted, Lewis would instead have had that same opportunity to pass him for the race win. Mercedes gambled, Red Bull won. That is the nature of racing at this level.

If this was all in the interests of the show, and it absolutely was, the race should have been red flagged while Latifi's accident was cleared. That would have given the championship the chance to end on a 4-lap race, with neither challenger taking an advantage as they'd both have been able to change tyres.

[eny]

Whatever the decision, it is a farce and undermines all the great work of the last year. If the shoe was reversed, I would equally be behind Red Bull if Hamilton had been made champion from behind after that mess.

[DjchunKfunK]

What it comes down to for me is would they have made this decision if it was not the deciding race of the season? I highly doubt it.

Whatever the decision, it is a farce and undermines all the great work of the last year. If the shoe was reversed, I would equally be behind Red Bull if Hamilton had been made champion from behind after that mess.

Same, the decision basically said to one driver "You know all that hard work you have done to win the race, well tough luck we have decided to give your opponent a massive advantage which almost guarantees they win the race instead."

[Raid]

What it comes down to for me is would they have made this decision if it was not the deciding race of the season? I highly doubt it.

Agreed. It's not preferable for a race to end under a safety car, but there's plenty of precedent for it.

[eny]

48.12 If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the message "LAPPED CARS MAY NOW
OVERTAKE" has been sent to all Competitors via the official messaging system, any cars that
have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the safety
car.
This will only apply to cars that were lapped at the time they crossed the Line at the end of the
lap during which they crossed the first Safety Car line for the second time after the safety car
was deployed.
Having overtaken the cars on the lead lap and the safety car these cars should then proceed
around the track at an appropriate speed, without overtaking, and make every effort to take up
position at the back of the line of cars behind the safety car. Whilst they are overtaking, and in
order to ensure this may be carried out safely, the cars on the lead lap must always stay on the
racing line unless deviating from it is unavoidable. Unless the clerk of the course considers the
presence of the safety car is still necessary, once the last lapped car has passed the leader the
safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap.
If the clerk of the course considers track conditions are unsuitable for overtaking the message
"OVERTAKING WILL NOT BE PERMITTED" will be sent to all Competitors via the official messaging
system.
48.13 When the clerk of the course decides it is safe to call in the safety car the message "SAFETY CAR
IN THIS LAP" will be sent to all Competitors via the official messaging system and the car's orange
lights will be extinguished. This will be the signal to the Competitors and drivers that it will be
entering the pit lane at the end of that lap.
At this point the first car in line behind the safety car may dictate the pace and, if necessary, fall
more than ten car lengths behind it.
In order to avoid the likelihood of accidents before the safety car returns to the pits, from the
point at which the lights on the car are turned out drivers must proceed at a pace which involves
no erratic acceleration or braking nor any other manoeuvre which is likely to endanger other
drivers or impede the restart.
As the safety car is approaching the pit entry the SC boards will be withdrawn and, other than
on the last lap of the sprint qualifying session or the race, as the leader approaches the Line the
yellow flags will be withdrawn and a green flag and/or green light panel will be displayed at the
Line.
48.14 Each lap completed while the safety car is deployed will be counted as a sprint qualifying session
lap or race lap. However, if the procedure set out in Article 41.1c) is followed, Article 5.3a)ii) or
Article 5.4c) as appropriate will apply.
48.15 If the safety car is still deployed at the beginning of the last lap, or is deployed during the last
lap, it will enter the pit lane at the end of the lap and the cars will take the end-of-race signal as
normal without overtaking.

[Wrathbone]

The Race Director stated that the purpose of Article 48.12 was to remove those lapped cars that would "interfere" in the racing between the leaders and that in his view Article 48.13 was the one that applied in this case.

The Race Director also stated that it had long been agreed by all the Teams that where possible it was highly desirable for the race to end in a "green" condition (i.e. not under a Safety Car).

That's total rubbish. Masi's first decision was to NOT allow the lapped cars to be released, and it was only after Red Bull whinged about it that he reversed the decision. In the first instance, either he thought unlapping them would end the race under the safety car and was therefore pointless, or he thought the only way to go green before the end was to leave them be. If he'd applied the rules as per normal (which in my 20-odd years of watching F1 has ALWAYS been that all lapped cars are allowed to unlap themselves before the restart or else the race finishes under the SC), Hamilton would have won. He also must have been acutely aware of three facts:

1) Allowing all the lapped cars to unlap themselves would have resulted in the race finishing under the SC or with a restart close to the end of the final lap.

2) Mercedes didn't pit due to the perfectly fair assumption that the rules would be applied normally, as per point 1.

3) Hamilton was on very old tyres and Verstappen was on fresh tyres.

And yet Masi took the egregiously unsporting decision to invent a new precedent to only unlap the cars in Verstappen's way and bring the safety car in immediately, thereby gazumping the basis for Mercedes' strategy and gifting the win to Verstappen. He claims it was in the spirit of ending the race under racing conditions, but instead he engineered a scenario where there was no 'racing' involved, no feasible possibility of Hamilton being able to hold off Verstappen. His actions are completely indefensible.

I hope Mercedes take the FIA and Masi to an independent court and fucking obliterate them. If this is the direction the FIA are going, turning F1 from a sport into a scripted spectacle, it's going to become WWE. You may as well watch Days of Thunder.

[eny]

Safety Car, until all lapped cars had rejoined, was the way that should have ended, instead, he rushed the process to get the safety car in before the last lap because "reasons".

[Drarok]

Masi should be right on the job boards, he can't possibly be defended for the absolute shit-show he concocted at the end of the season. All the hard work put in by all of the teams has been reduced to one man's fuckery.

Max as a driver deserves a championship, but not like this. It's a hollow victory he was handed when if all rules were followed, he'd not have it this year.

[…] the race should have been red flagged while Latifi's accident was cleared. That would have given the championship the chance to end on a 4-lap race, with neither challenger taking an advantage as they'd both have been able to change tyres.

Yep, one last fair fight. Though, given HAM had such a lead with only 10 laps to go, I don't think RB had them this year.

Latifi's crash and the total bungling of its handling changed what looked like a sure-fire result. Even if HAM had given the place back from the turn 1 incident (which I don't think he should have; forced off), the pace he showed throughout the race just isn't something RB had an answer for.