The F1 thread

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Rossell
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Re: The F1 thread

Post by Rossell » Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:43 pm

A sad state of affairs all round. I saw a picture of the immediate aftermath and I felt sick.

It's times like these I always reevaluate my commitment to the sport, but I know that any sport can cause a fatality in one way or another.

As for Spa, I'd like them to extend the run off if possible, it's not the first time we've seen a crash like that and the danger of the car sliding back on track is very high.

On a high, Leclerc had victory number 1 of what I hope will be many.

Mogster
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Re: The F1 thread

Post by Mogster » Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:12 pm

I’m not sure they can extend the run off at Raidillon much, I suspect the terrain falls away to the right.

I do question if the changes made to Eau Rouge, the straightening and adding tarmac run off to the left, have made it safer. In the past the drivers approached it with respect, now its viewed as a casual easy flat, except it isn’t... we still see the mother of all accidents there. Unfortunately the accidents are now at higher speed and often continue over the crest at Raidillon, with cars often spinning and backing into the barrier. I’m tempted to say Eau Rouge should be reprofiled to make the drivers back off slightly, as it used to be...

Decent race. Good to see Leclerc get his first win, another strong drive from Ham when the Ferrari’s were so much quicker in S1 & S3. Not sure what Max was thinking about driving downhill from La Source at full chat with his front wheels pointing in different directions...

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DjchunKfunK
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Re: The F1 thread

Post by DjchunKfunK » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:35 am

Decent race. Good to see Leclerc get his first win, another strong drive from Ham when the Ferrari’s were so much quicker in S1 & S3. Not sure what Max was thinking about driving downhill from La Source at full chat with his front wheels pointing in different directions...
That he has got away with bashing into people a bit the last few races. Think he expects people to just get out of his way.

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Raid
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Re: The F1 thread

Post by Raid » Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:58 pm

I think he means that Max's steering was broken but he still accelerated up the hill. It was notable given that we'd seen a deadly accident there just a few hours before. Max surely knew the damage was there as everything would have felt wrong.

I think it's a shame that LeClerc's first win happened at an event where he lost a friend. Most drivers look back fondly on that first win, but I dare say that memory will forever be tarnished. It was a good win though, Charles pretty much dominated the weekend prior to the race, and he held off a five times world champion in seemingly a faster car. I do wonder whether he got lucky due to the yellow flags on the last lap, but frankly I think that may actually have harmed his pace rather than helped Lewis', as there was a 1.5 second gap at the start of that last lap.

Mogster
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Re: The F1 thread

Post by Mogster » Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:18 pm

Raid wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:58 pm
I think he means that Max's steering was broken but he still accelerated up the hill. It was notable given that we'd seen a deadly accident there just a few hours before. Max surely knew the damage was there as everything would have felt wrong.
Yeah. I can’t find a replay but he seemed to be on full right lock on the downhill trying to keep the car straight. When he went off he nearly collected the Sauber, it could have been an aeroplane crash with the spectator areas close by. After Saturday’s events for a split second I had a not again Imola 94 feeling...

I do wonder how hard Ham would have fought for the win in the circumstances. With the Ferrari’s top speed advantage on Kemmel he’d have been hard to pass anyway, Ham didn’t find Vettel easy. The right result

Wasn’t expecting the lap 19 ovation it was a nice touch. I’m not an emotional guy but...

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Raid
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Re: The F1 thread

Post by Raid » Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:34 pm

I've gone back and watched the immediate aftermath after Kimi and Max collided, and I've no doubt that Max knew his steering was broken already. I'm astonished he thought it wise to accelerate up the hill in that state. Incidentally I had initially given the blame for that incident to Max, but I think they both ought to shoulder some of it; Max emerged from beside a Racing Point so there was little chance of Kimi seeing him after Max had committed to the corner, and despite Max being marginally behind, I think he was far enough alongside Kimi to be owed some space. It's a racing incident, I don't think there needs to be a penalty for either driver (although Max trying to contest the corner was always going to be unwise).

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Raid
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Re: The F1 thread

Post by Raid » Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:39 pm

That was the most embarrassing display this sport has produced since the 2005 US GP. I'm not angry about it like some fans I've seen comment from, in fact I was laughing all the way through that out lap realising quite early that this was going to happen. I can't blame the drivers really, if the tow is worth 0.2 seconds or more, then there's barely any point in trying unless you receive one.

I really want LeClerc to win tomorrow, but I can't see it happening. There's a good chance it'll be a wet race, which I think will nullify the Ferrari's advantage, and surely being first onto the straights is a huge disadvantage.

Mogster
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Re: The F1 thread

Post by Mogster » Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:55 pm

Heh, people ask for unpredictability and there it is...

It was ridiculous but most were looking for a tow as they already had a decent banker in. Ferrari had Leclerc on pole, Merc had Ham on the front row. FOM will use this debacle as leverage to try a qualifying race here next year.

I think it also shows that the field is actually quite close now, FP3 had 18 cars within 1.5secs... 0.5sec is way too much for anyone to throw away. The race tomorrow should be interesting as Merc, RBR, Ferrari, Renault all seem to have decent pace. The F2 race developed into a close slipstreaming battle that went on for laps, almost like an oval race. I’d rather see a dry race tomorrow as the F1 looks so well set.

I’m really starting to look forward to 2020 as convergence should pull the field even tighter.

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Wrathbone
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Re: The F1 thread

Post by Wrathbone » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:12 pm

That was the funniest Q3 I’ve seen for a long time, not least because (as Martin Brundle pointed out) Raikkonen crashed into the word DRINK on the barrier.

Mogster
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Re: The F1 thread

Post by Mogster » Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:56 am

From the radio transcripts it appears Leclerc was supposed to tow Vettel but ignored the order. Vettel kept asking the pit wall to tell Leclerc to get on with it but he never did...

So is Charlie de facto team lead at Ferrari now? I wonder what this will do to the relationship between them?

Dry for the F2 race just now.

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Raid
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Re: The F1 thread

Post by Raid » Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:18 am

LeClerc has been so well behaved this year that I did wonder whether he had something in his contract intended to make sure he'd support Vettel. If not, then I would expect Ferrari to choose Vettel over LeClerc regardless, unless the latter were significantly outscoring the former, which currently is not the case. Charles is a potential champion of the future, but he needs the full support of his team to achieve that, and I suspect he knows that he needs to play the team game at least for this year to make sure that happens.

Monza's a special case though; not only does supporting your teammate pretty much guarantee that they'll outqualify you, but getting pole at the Tifosi's home turf will cement you in their good books, and I get the impression that this is important if you're wearing red overalls. I'm not surprised that Charles would choose that moment to play up.

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Raid
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Re: The F1 thread

Post by Raid » Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:04 pm

Well, so much for Charles being behaved. The cynic in me thinks that if he weren't driving a Ferrari at Monza, he'd have had more than one penalty at that race. Forcing Hamilton off the track and later cutting a chicane were both very much on the edge of acceptable. I was surprised at how quickly after the former he was shown the black and white "bad conduct but no penalty" flag; I would really have expected a little more investigation into that one. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to see him get the win, and I have no doubt that Lewis has been shown similar leniency in the past, I just don't want him to develop a reputation for dirty racing.

And then there's Seb. Another unforced error leading to a second weekend to forget while his teammate took victory. Is he just struggling with this year's car? Given how this habit of losing his car's rear end seemed to start in the latter half of last year, I'm not convinced. He really needs to step up his game now that he's got another young upstart in his team rather than the comfortably-slower Webber or Raikkonen - don't forget that the same thing happened in the year that Ricciardo joined Red Bull. He's now behind LeClerc in points, and with Charles bringing Ferrari victory at their home GP, I kinda get the feeling he's not going to be getting the favourable treatment he's perhaps been used to. While I can't see Ferrari doing something so dramatic as dropping him, I do get the feeling his career's on a definite decline.

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DjchunKfunK
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Re: The F1 thread

Post by DjchunKfunK » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:54 pm

Vettel is just a flat-track bully, needs to be in a car that is comfortably better than his opponents to win, anything else and he struggles. I think he could still win a championship but he would need a car that was way out in front and I don't see that happening.

I didn't see the race but from reading up on what happened I agree on Leclarc, Ferrari has always been shown leniency by officials and it being Monza just makes it doubly likely that they will get the decision.

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Raid
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Re: The F1 thread

Post by Raid » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:14 pm

I'm still not convinced by that assessment of Vettel; I remember him having a staggeringly good fight with Alonso at Silverstone when Seb was still at Red Bull (it was the first of the turbo-hybrid years when Red Bull fell from grace, so he wasn't really in a superior car), so I know he's still capable of racing in less-than-class-leading equipment. I just think his skills have declined after five years of battling Mercedes dominance. I just wonder whether his heart's in it anymore; he was clearly downtrodden after Canada this year, and I think a victory would do him a world of good. Personally I don't think he's going to continue in F1 after his current contract ends, or at the most he'll see whether the regulations shake the status quo in 2021 and make his decision then.

Mogster
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Re: The F1 thread

Post by Mogster » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:27 pm

Raid wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:04 pm
Well, so much for Charles being behaved. The cynic in me thinks that if he weren't driving a Ferrari at Monza, he'd have had more than one penalty at that race. Forcing Hamilton off the track and later cutting a chicane were both very much on the edge of acceptable. I was surprised at how quickly after the former he was shown the black and white "bad conduct but no penalty" flag; I would really have expected a little more investigation into that one. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to see him get the win, and I have no doubt that Lewis has been shown similar leniency in the past, I just don't want him to develop a reputation for dirty racing.
I was most concerned by the weaving on Curva Grande. Maybe I’m old fashioned but at 150mph you should pick a line and stick to it...I I think it was Nigel Mansell in the 80s that said there’s a gentleman’s agreement that you don’t weave from side to side to defend your position. Firstly it’s very dangerous and secondly if you do that no one can overtake you... Conversely if your in the following car next time you won’t be able to overtake... ](*,)

I hate to agree with Jacques Villeneuve but there appears to be a disturbing amount of sim racing style driving from the kids now. It seemed to start with Max who re-defined what was acceptable, now anything goes and the stewards seem to be condoning it on the grounds of entertainment. It’ll come to a head when someone causes a truly massive accident, hopefully it won’t cause injuries or worse.

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