The H.P. Lovecraft Reading Club

[Sly Boots]

[Sly Boots]

Done

[Stormbringer]

Spoiler

My favourite line from this one is:

In a rational age like the eighteenth century it was unwise for a man of learning to talk about wild sights and strange scenes under a Congo moon; of the gigantic walls and pillars of a forgotten city, crumbling and vine-grown, and of damp, silent, stone steps leading interminably down into the darkness of abysmal treasure-vaults and inconceivable catacombs.

It reminds me strongly of the Lost City of Zinj from Michael Crichton's 1980 novel Congo, which (if you've read that book) you'll know was also populated by gorilla/human hybrids (though they are grey rather than white).

The rest of the story, I think, expresses Lovecraft's deep-seated phobia of human genetics and how different "races" are able to interbreed and create "hybrids". That's just my theory based on his general observed xenophobia. It also covers other themes he was fixated on: one being people responding to "the call" of their blood (the son of Sir Wade returns to the Congo on a ship and disappears into the jungle, a later descendant reverting to a savage beast when getting into a fight with an actual gorilla etc.). The irresistible outworking of genetic determinism. He seems to be rather terrified of that concept. I think he was also terrified of how closely humans are related to "savage beasts" (though ironically, writing in the days before DNA was understood as it is today, he wouldn't actually know just how close that is) and I guess he thought we were only one generation away from turning into apes if we dared mix our superior English blood with that of foreigners.

Especially if they're from... the jungle.

Speaking of that, I think Arthur massively over-reacts to the revelation of his "less-than-pure" human ancestry, and the opening paragraph starts with a bizarre statement that if we knew what we REALLY are (i.e. highly advanced apes) we would ALL immolate ourselves like Arthur did! I don't really follow Lovecraft's reasoning there for a variety of reasons. Every living creature on the planet is striving and competing to LIVE. None of them sit and contemplate how horrid or disgusting their existence is, they just exist by whatever means necessary...



Humans may aspire to master nature and overcome our natural instincts in a variety of ways and for a variety of reasons, and it's true that some people for some reasons do become disgusted with our own biology and how it works, or how closely related we are to nature (I had a colleague who couldn't bear to eat eggs because, she said, "they come out of a hen's fanny!" -- I reminded her that she came out of her mother's fanny, and she was revolted to even think about that). Seems to be a common trend among modern urban types: to be disgusted by the natural world as if it were a completely alien environment that has no relation to us. I have to confess I, who have always lived an urban lifestyle, am frequently disturbed by the natural world and the way it works, particularly in regard to plants and insects, whereas people I know from a more rural background are more at home with it. But I don't think anyone in their right mind would take a look at himself and think: "OMG! Humans are really similar to apes! BURN THEM ALL!" It's hard to know what exactly HPL was getting at here.

As a side note, it is with yet another touch of irony that, in of the very few of HPL's stories which even mentions sub-Saharan Africa (I think there are only three of these), he actually seems to describe black people as being human (albeit in highly colonial terms) whereas in other places (letters, poems, essays etc.) he has tried to make some highly disturbing species distinction between homo sapiens and black people, which we won't go into. Apart from the mention of a "loathsome black woman" (who to be fair might not be loathsome merely because she is black) the actual tribes who live in the Congo region are described in no demeaning language except to say they have become the thralls of the Belgians (which is historically accurate for the period).

Question time:

1. How soon did you make the connection as to who Sir Wade's wife really was?

2. How would YOU react if you found out your great-great-grandmother was actually a white ape hybrid from a Lost City?

3. Why do you think Sir Wade mated with the white ape princess in the first place? Was it true love? Madness? Scientific curiosity?

[Sly Boots]

Spoiler

Yes - I absolutely had Congo in mind as this unfolded, more so the film (starring a hilariously campy Tim Curry) than the book, which I've not read.

I agree with everything you wrote and you bring up a lot of the points that occurred to me as I read. I must admit I read this with many things clenched as I feared an exceedingly racist ending, perhaps along the lines that his ancestor had - horror of horrors - mated with an African person and his antecedents savage ugliness was the result of this. Fortunately it did not go so far, and I guessed the ending once he described the local legend about the princess/goddess. Having stated the family history in such detail, I'd be amazed if anyone reading this didn't make that connection at that point. But maybe he wasn't going for a massive twist ending on this one.

Couple of other things I would mention:

- This one was an interesting reversal of the idea he's explored previously about how people can degenerate into primates/monsters over several generations. Here, they start at that point and through exposure to civilisation (and no doubt importantly in HPL's mind, wholesome British colonialism) evolve into something more over time. Each generation after Wade seems to get gradually more civilised/sophisticated (though little is really said of Robert's son's nature), culminating in the sensitive, poetical Arthur.

- This is the first one we've read, I think, where we're given literally no information about our narrator. It's clearly intended to be a person who inhabits this world, but beyond that he's a blank canvas. It would be interesting to know just how he (assuming it's a he, though probably a given) came to know all this information about this family and all its previous generations.

I think I've answered 1. above, as to 2. then obviously self-immolation is the only sane, rational response and for 3., who doesn't crave a little monkey-love now and then?

[Stormbringer]

Spoiler

This one was an interesting reversal of the idea he's explored previously about how people can degenerate into primates/monsters over several generations. Here, they start at that point and through exposure to civilisation (and no doubt importantly in HPL's mind, wholesome British colonialism) evolve into something more over time. Each generation after Wade seems to get gradually more civilised/sophisticated (though little is really said of Robert's son's nature), culminating in the sensitive, poetical Arthur.

Well, as far as we know there's only one foreign gene contributor in the family -- the white ape princess herself. After that, all the successive generations breed with regular humans, so the hybrid influence should be naturally diminished over time, but still, it seems the white ape "corruption" has a strong influence on successive offspring. It's hard to say whether or not Lovecraft believed that the white ape ancestry could have been gradually "bred out" over the generations, or whether or not he believed it would leave a lasting legacy for all time. I suspect the latter, which is why he was so determined that any kind of corruption like that needs to be purged with fire.

To be honest I don't think there is a "gradual" progression from barbaric to civilised. The nature of the offspring of the Jermyn line is fairly erratic from Wade to Arthur. You've got some so hideous they're never seen, others with a violent temperament, others who are surly and queerly proportioned. Many instances of breeding with "commoners" like gamekeeper's daughters or dancers (shocking!) or running away and partaking in vulgar professions, like being a sailor (awful!) or a circus performer (the horror!). Regarding Robert's son Nevil, it says he was "a singularly repellent person who seemed to combine the surliness of Philip Jermyn with the hauteur of the Brightholmes" and that he "ran away with a vulgar dancer". Nobody is really "wholesome" and "normal" again after the ape princess comes into the family, and anyone who has any kind of noble qualities (such as Robert or Arthur) is an exception where the English blood manages to shine through the "outside" influence.

I suspect the "ape" princess is really just the queen of a lost tribe of Neanderthals, who are perfectly genetically compatible with what we call "homo sapiens". I believe the real horror here, in Lovecraft's mind, is that an English nobleman would and could dare to mate with somebody who isn't English (and noble).

This is the first one we've read, I think, where we're given literally no information about our narrator. It's clearly intended to be a person who inhabits this world, but beyond that he's a blank canvas. It would be interesting to know just how he (assuming it's a he, though probably a given) came to know all this information about this family and all its previous generations.

Good observation. Yes, this narrator is not a character in the story but more the generic third person. Quite unusual so far and I had not even considered that. We'll have to keep our eyes open for more of these.

+++

Well, I'd normally leave this step until Thursday, but since there's nobody left in the club now except you, I may as well start pointing to where we'll go next...


1. More outsider genes corrupting good human (i.e. white English) stock...
2. More cities with silent, stone steps leading interminably down into the darkness of abysmal treasure-vaults and inconceivable catacombs...
3. More mysterious legends of forgotten and peculiar white people living in the Congo basin...
4. Kill it with fire!
5. Science RUINING your life by revealing truths best left undiscovered...

[Sly Boots]

A few tempters, but 2 sounds good

[Stormbringer]

Very well.

Let us travel deep into the deserts of Arabia and discover the horror lurking within the crumbling ruins of The Nameless City...


Read it here.

[Snowy]

Spoiler

My favourite line from this one is:

In a rational age like the eighteenth century it was unwise for a man of learning to talk about wild sights and strange scenes under a Congo moon; of the gigantic walls and pillars of a forgotten city, crumbling and vine-grown, and of damp, silent, stone steps leading interminably down into the darkness of abysmal treasure-vaults and inconceivable catacombs.

It reminds me strongly of the Lost City of Zinj from Michael Crichton's 1980 novel Congo, which (if you've read that book) you'll know was also populated by gorilla/human hybrids (though they are grey rather than white).

The rest of the story, I think, expresses Lovecraft's deep-seated phobia of human genetics and how different "races" are able to interbreed and create "hybrids". That's just my theory based on his general observed xenophobia. It also covers other themes he was fixated on: one being people responding to "the call" of their blood (the son of Sir Wade returns to the Congo on a ship and disappears into the jungle, a later descendant reverting to a savage beast when getting into a fight with an actual gorilla etc.). The irresistible outworking of genetic determinism. He seems to be rather terrified of that concept. I think he was also terrified of how closely humans are related to "savage beasts" (though ironically, writing in the days before DNA was understood as it is today, he wouldn't actually know just how close that is) and I guess he thought we were only one generation away from turning into apes if we dared mix our superior English blood with that of foreigners.

Especially if they're from... the jungle.

Speaking of that, I think Arthur massively over-reacts to the revelation of his "less-than-pure" human ancestry, and the opening paragraph starts with a bizarre statement that if we knew what we REALLY are (i.e. highly advanced apes) we would ALL immolate ourselves like Arthur did! I don't really follow Lovecraft's reasoning there for a variety of reasons. Every living creature on the planet is striving and competing to LIVE. None of them sit and contemplate how horrid or disgusting their existence is, they just exist by whatever means necessary...



Humans may aspire to master nature and overcome our natural instincts in a variety of ways and for a variety of reasons, and it's true that some people for some reasons do become disgusted with our own biology and how it works, or how closely related we are to nature (I had a colleague who couldn't bear to eat eggs because, she said, "they come out of a hen's fanny!" -- I reminded her that she came out of her mother's fanny, and she was revolted to even think about that). Seems to be a common trend among modern urban types: to be disgusted by the natural world as if it were a completely alien environment that has no relation to us. I have to confess I, who have always lived an urban lifestyle, am frequently disturbed by the natural world and the way it works, particularly in regard to plants and insects, whereas people I know from a more rural background are more at home with it. But I don't think anyone in their right mind would take a look at himself and think: "OMG! Humans are really similar to apes! BURN THEM ALL!" It's hard to know what exactly HPL was getting at here.

As a side note, it is with yet another touch of irony that, in of the very few of HPL's stories which even mentions sub-Saharan Africa (I think there are only three of these), he actually seems to describe black people as being human (albeit in highly colonial terms) whereas in other places (letters, poems, essays etc.) he has tried to make some highly disturbing species distinction between homo sapiens and black people, which we won't go into. Apart from the mention of a "loathsome black woman" (who to be fair might not be loathsome merely because she is black) the actual tribes who live in the Congo region are described in no demeaning language except to say they have become the thralls of the Belgians (which is historically accurate for the period).

Question time:

1. How soon did you make the connection as to who Sir Wade's wife really was?

2. How would YOU react if you found out your great-great-grandmother was actually a white ape hybrid from a Lost City?

3. Why do you think Sir Wade mated with the white ape princess in the first place? Was it true love? Madness? Scientific curiosity?

Stop the presses, I have returned from the Holland graveyard, albeit that I don't know how long for (the allure of those beastly Dutch cannot be overstated ¬_¬) Or more accurately that life is still a bit manic just now

So:

Spoiler

This is another unusual one, in that it doesn't really have any connection with the Mythos - rather than Poe being the inspiration I suspect that this time the muse came from HPL reading Burroughs' Tarzan books. Saying that though, there are a number of Mythos tales which imply the breeding of humans with...others... so maybe there is a link there.

It is still quite heavily xenophobic:
- [On the subject of the lost city] "Its size must have been exaggerated, yet the stones lying about proved that it was no mere negro village." because clearly anyone not of white descent could create anything noteworthy
- "The ape-princess, it was said, became the consort of a great white god who had come out of the West." is almost certainly how HPL would imagine such an event!
- "Among the Kaliris was an aged chief called Mwanu, who possessed not only a highly retentive memory, but a singular degree of intelligence", the implication being that most of his racial compatriots are clearly thickos
- Philip Jermyn was "Tall and fairly handsome, with a sort of weird Eastern grace" - he really can't help himself

And to Doug's homework questions:
1. How soon did you make the connection as to who Sir Wade's wife really was? Right off the bat. I have read it before, but recalled my original working out when Sir Wade's son with the long arms and huge strength started swinging about in the rigging.

2. How would YOU react if you found out your great-great-grandmother was actually a white ape hybrid from a Lost City? I have no idea. I would probably be scared to reveal it for fear of what could happen to me i.e. would I end up being taken away and form the subject of experiments - every X-Files bone in my body says it would happen I certainly don't think self-immolation would be my preferred response!

3. Why do you think Sir Wade mated with the white ape princess in the first place? Was it true love? Madness? Scientific curiosity? Again no idea, it seems a strange thing to do. Maybe for power, wealth or knowledge, as she was the goddess to the inhabitants of a city indicated to be a treasure trove in its subterranean depths. I wondered initially if it was her who initiated those proceedings but I assume not as he took her away with him when he left.

[Stormbringer]

Yes! So glad to have you back with us, Snowy!

C'mon Mantis and Gibby!

Spoiler

I suspect that this time the muse came from HPL reading Burroughs' Tarzan books

Absolutely right; according to Wikipedia this one borrows some ideas from The Jewels of Opar. I also see elements of Rudyard Kipling at work.

I have to say I really like how, even though the story is fundamentally about lost cities and ape hybrids, it isn't just another Burroughs imitation tale, but sets that part of the tale very much in the background -- only really hinted at in tribal legends and drunken rumours -- while the main story is about the decay and degeneration of a noble family in the classic Lovecraft mould.

It is still quite heavily xenophobic:

"Among the Kaliris was an aged chief called Mwanu, who possessed not only a highly retentive memory, but a singular degree of intelligence", the implication being that most of his racial compatriots are clearly thickos

I'm not sure I read it that way; it just means he was more intelligent and with a better memory than the others in his tribe. Singular doesn't mean "alone" it means "exceptional". Considering who the author is, I'd say the above line is actually an uncharacteristically generous compliment to a non-English person!

Maybe for power, wealth or knowledge, as she was the goddess to the inhabitants of a city indicated to be a treasure trove in its subterranean depths. I wondered initially if it was her who initiated those proceedings but I assume not as he took her away with him when he left.

That's something I hadn't considered. Perhaps it was a Kipling-esque "Men Who Would Be King" sort of affair; perhaps he discovers the tribe of "hybrids" while exploring Africa and because he is different to them they revere him as a god (typical colonial fantasy) and he exploits it to the max, marrying their matriarch and securing prestige, power and lordship over a tribe, which both tickles his aristocratic fancy and scientific curiosity at the same.

I'm still sticking with the theory that the hybrids are Neanderthals, rather than "apes".



Would you marry her if you could rule over a tribe as a god?

[Sly Boots]

Spoiler

One thing that just occurs to me, is there any suggestion why Wade grew to despise his house, even be afraid of it, after returning from the Congo - to the point that shortly prior to his incarceration in the asylum he was basically living in the pub? It suggested some bad associations with the place, but to the best of my recollection this is never expanded upon further.

[Stormbringer]

Spoiler

One thing that just occurs to me, is there any suggestion why Wade grew to despise his house, even be afraid of it, after returning from the Congo - to the point that shortly prior to his incarceration in the asylum he was basically living in the pub? It suggested some bad associations with the place, but to the best of my recollection this is never expanded upon further.

The only suggestion I can think of, based on the text, is that he starts to dread his home after: 1. His wife has died and 2. His son grows up into a young man.

Without his wife and their wild, passionate life in the jungle together, maybe Sir Wade feels lost and alone in the big old house and stifled by the social norms and expectations of English society. Also, on observing his son in the surroundings of his family home, maybe Sir Wade has finally woken up to the cost of his fanciful dreams and/or ambitions. On beholding his son -- his very living image -- growing into a creature of the jungle before his very eyes, and having married far below his station and tarnished the family name, he realises he has doomed his family forever by introducing foreign and wild blood into the line. Perhaps he also looks up at the portraits of the stern Jermyn line going back for centuries glaring down at him with their fine noble features and he feels haunted by the cost of his decisions. He turns to drink to escape this burden and feels the asylum is the safest place for him. Perhaps he even fears his wild son and what he may become.

[Stormbringer]

Found this little nugget of info on a HPL Wiki page:

Spoiler

By virtue of a modern understanding of evolution, genetics, and anthropology, a great deal of insight may be had into the biological lineage of the "white ape." Based on information contained in the Arthur Jermyn family tree, the wife and mate of Arthur Jermyn's Great-great-great Grandfather, Sir Wade Jermyn, was a "white ape". Their child, Sir Philip Jermyn, went on to have his own family and children. This is significant, and indicates that Great-great-great Grandmother Jermyn was not in fact an "ape", but rather a member of an extant highly rare and isolated human sub-species, not unlike the extinct Neanderthals and Denisovans.

Sir Philip would therefore have been an intra-species hybrid. Had his mother originated outside the Homo sapiens species, Sir Philip would have been sterile or have yielded unviable offspring (the limited number of offspring in the Jermyn line may suggest genetic compatibility issues.) The fact that he did not suggests that while having marked morphological differences from AMHs (anatomically modern humans), the bride of Sir Wade Jermyn was human on a genetic level.

There then remains the question of the origin of the "white ape" human sub-species. There are three potential explanations:

1. Like Neanderthals and Denisovans, the "white apes" descend from a common Homo erectus ancestor, this sub-species then persisted in isolation in the Congo river basin.

2. The "white apes" are actually surviving Neanderthals or Denisovans, and their white color is either a cultural body painting/dying or the result of albinism reinforced in the limited gene pool.

3. The "white apes" are actually genetic descendants of AMHs, human settlers to the basin at some point in the ancient prehistoric past. The morphology and pigmentation variation is therefore the result of genetic abnormalities that became reinforced in this isolated gene pool.

Finally, and perhaps most problematically, there is the possibility that there were no "white apes" at all. In this scenario, the "inhuman" features of Jermyn are an exaggeration as seen through the lens of a racially prejudiced Victorian narrator. The observations of the "white apes" by various parties are actually racist descriptions of a distinct cultural group. The ape-like features of the "white ape princess" mummy are perhaps exaggerated either through an ignorance of human physical variation, or by a racially prejudiced view of what is accepted as "human".

[Sly Boots]

Interesting, thanks Doug.

Not sure what to make of the Wiki bit, though, as it kind of assumes HPL was aware of these aspects of genetics and anthropology (which he may have been, I have no idea).

[Stormbringer]

I don't personally think it assumes that he was aware. He could not have known, writing in the 1920s, the full extent of what we know today about those subjects. As you may have noticed in The Rats in the Walls, Lovecraft was writing when people still thought Piltdown Man was a genuine article instead of a hoax.

The fragment I quoted from the fan Wiki is just taking Lovecraft's story as written and applying modern scientific knowledge to it, which demonstrates that the "white ape" must have been genetically "human" in order to successfully breed into the Jermyn line. In that light, it demonstrates that the narrator of the story does not understand the biological nature of humanity, or they do, but wish to purposely narrow the goal-posts to fit a Victorian English ideal. Either way, the narrator displays a classic HPL attitude to anthropology, which ultimately amounts to:

"If you're English and noble, you're okay. Otherwise, you deserve to die in a fire."

[Sly Boots]

I know, it's just the whole 'applying modern science then it must have been this' hypothesis, when as he wasn't aware of all that then you surely can't apply that interpretation. But maybe that's just me.