Dragon Age 4: The Veilguard - out October 31st

[Sly Boots]

I've only watched the first 10 minutes of this, but I think it's a good way of showing where the writing has gone wrong:



And one of the comments nailed it I think, by saying this isn't dialogue, it's exposition, which is why it's boring. And I think that's exactly why all the conversation I've seen across multiple video reviews (positive and negative) I've watched bothers me so much.

[Wrathbone]

While it's not exactly great dialogue in the example scene, I don't agree with some of his criticisms, especially given that the scene is taken out of any context without any knowledge of the characters. The guy doesn't seem to be at all familiar with Dragon Age either, which doesn't help. I also think that hyper-analysing one scene before playing the game is not a great way of gauging the overall dialogue quality. Also-also, the tone of both the game as a whole and the specific scene shouldn't be separated from the mechanics of it, and it's clear that Veilguard is striking a lighter tone than previous games, which may validate some of the dialogue choices. Pixar films are not exactly Shakespeare, but the tone of the dialogue is intentional and purposeful.

Maybe it is rife with terrible dialogue, but I bet if I took some random throwaway conversations from previous Dragon Age games and gave them the same level of critique, they'd fall to pieces under scrutiny. Honestly, it's a series where I'm more concerned with the big story beats.

[Sly Boots]

I think the lighter tone is in and of itself a problem honestly, for me at least, and comparing it to Pixar or MCU dialogue (which I've seen in a few places as well) is kinda a big red flag for me. I guess I get why they were trying to go for a broader appeal here, but I think the end result is something that, for me personally, I don't think I'll enjoy as much as previous entries in the series.

I don't think it's just random dialogue either, I'm thinking particularly to scenes in the SkillUp review which were apparently key story beats, where the group is sitting around a table reflecting on what's happened to date and where they go next, and it is only a tiny step beyond "I think we should do this." "Yes, we also should do this." "I agree, let's do this" level of discussion. Or several other scenes where there is some conflict between party members, and it's essentially "I like this" "I disagree, I like this other thing" and your character chiming in with "Hey guys, relax, it's ok for people to like different things and that's perfectly ok" "You're right, liking different things is ok".

It just doesn't sound engaging at all.

[Wrathbone]

I think the lighter tone is in and of itself a problem honestly, for me at least, and comparing it to Pixar or MCU dialogue (which I've seen in a few places as well) is kinda a big red flag for me. I guess I get why they were trying to go for a broader appeal here, but I think the end result is something that, for me personally, I don't think I'll enjoy as much as previous entries in the series.

As a shameless MCU fanboy, I’ll be right at home.

The tone shift doesn’t bother me as long as it’s appropriate for the game. I remember when DA2 came out and a lot of people were angry that it wasn’t Dragon Age because you’re playing a named character, or because it was restricted to a single city, etc. DA2 has a lot of problems, but I don’t consider any of those things problems because they work for that game, and I think over time it’s become accepted as being as much a valid part of the series as Origins. On that basis, I’ll take Veilguard for whatever it is, so long as it’s good.

[Sly Boots]

Another video talking mainly about the writing - seems like fairly balanced criticism to me, overall he says the game is fine but the way dialogue is written (he doesn't get hung up on the actual content like a lot of people are doing) is starting to erode his will to continue:



Are you playing, WB?

[Wrathbone]

Yeah, I’m about 7 hours in, really enjoying it. The combat is a huge improvement over 2 and 3, getting you actually involved rather than just holding a button down, and there’s a much bigger focus on defence. Magic feels quite versatile in what you can do - looks like it will get quite tactical over time.

Story is good so far, but I can’t really say anything without spoilers so I’ll hold off for now. The dialogue I’ve found to be mostly unremarkable - not great, not a disaster unless you’re actively looking for problems with it. The art style has grown on me surprisingly quickly, probably because it looks absolutely stunning in action.

I’m still waiting for the game to open up a bit, as it’s so far been almost entirely linear. In fairness, Origins was similar in that regard until you left Lothering, and it’s not necessarily a bad move while you’re learning the ropes.

On the whole, I think it‘ll end up being a good game. Whether it ends up being a good Dragon Age game is a harder question.


EDIT - It's worth mentioning just how polished the game is. Considering the half-baked mess that many games are released in these days, Veilguard performs well, has been entirely bug-free so far and has exemplary quality-of-life features that let you tweak the experience to your preference (things like changing hold-press to a single press to activate stuff - minor details, but they matter). It's an admirable level of quality.

[Wrathbone]

Another video talking mainly about the writing - seems like fairly balanced criticism to me, overall he says the game is fine but the way dialogue is written (he doesn't get hung up on the actual content like a lot of people are doing) is starting to erode his will to continue

I mostly agree with what he’s saying. The game itself and the story are great, it’s the dialogue that lets down the whole experience a bit, in two specific ways that bother me:

1) The majority of dialogue lacks any conflict. There’s rarely so much as a disagreement - someone says something, you choose whether to comment on it sincerely, coyly or moodily and the other person responds with a variation on “I know, right!”

2) Dialogue offers almost no actual choices or decisions. In 10 hours, I can only recall two meaningful choices, and they weren’t especially consequential. To me, making difficult choices is the absolute core of an RPG.

And that’s the thing - it’s not an RPG anymore. It’s an action game with a good story and skill trees and equipment, but other than deciding what mood style you want your dialogue responses to be in, you’re not making choices as a core aspect of the game.

I said I’d take it for what it is and I stand by that. It’s mostly very good at what it does, it’s just not a Dragon Age game in the way any of the previous games were.

[Sly Boots]

Yeah, that tallies with what I've read even from people who said they enjoyed the game overall. I expect I will probably pick it up, but on a steep discount. And as probably the first single-player Bioware game I've ever not bought on day 1 (basically everything other than Anthem), that feels quite sad.

[Wrathbone]

Think I'm past the halfway point now and the story is properly ramping up. It has a feel of Mass Effect 3 about it in the sense of defying impossible odds, and some of Veilguard's setpieces leave ME3's reaper battles in the dust. Everything I've previously said still holds, but after a shaky start I'm beginning to see why it reviewed well. For all its flaws, it's compelling to play.

...But it's still not Dragon Age. The lore is there (oh boy is it there), the world-shaking events are there, the dragons are certainly there, but it's missing the fundamental drama that ran through the previous games. David Gaider is a superb storyteller and his absence in Veilguard is conspicuous. I was listening to the Inquisition soundtrack and I got to what is arguably the headline track, The Dawn Will Come, and it got me thinking about how it's used so powerfully in the game - after suffering a terrible defeat and being forced to flee into the mountains, the Inquisition slumps in despair until slowly the sound of the hymn grows into a rousing chorus of hope. And right at the peak of this renewed purpose, the soundtrack kicks up a notch and you're shown everyone trekking deeper into the mountains, following Solas (ha) to who knows where, until the castle of Skyhold is finally revealed - this magnificent, sprawling place that serves as your stronghold for the rest of the game. I find that entire section incredibly powerful and it gives Skyhold a real sense of character and epic importance. The way Skyhold evolves throughout the game is excellent too.

And then Veilguard comes along. After the initial chapter, you appear in a place called the Lighthouse, which is your stronghold. As a location, it's fine, but it has zero introduction (literally you turn up there and it's like "oh look, a stronghold, this'll do") for somewhere that is actually hugely thematically significant to the story. It's such a waste of potential drama. Instead you get your ragtag companions making sarcastic comments about the Lighthouse along the lines of, "what's the deal with that?"

What I'd give for Gaider to have spent a couple of months injecting some life into the way the story is presented and the flow of dialogue, because each instance of this problem is typically something that could be improved quite easily.

[Maturin]

I watched some video compilations of this. I can see why the game's sales have been apparently very disappointing, in general it looks so utterly different to what the series was all about.

Shame, because by all accounts from a technical point of view they've made a really robust game at launch. So the main devs did their part at least.

[Wrathbone]

It really is technically very impressive and at 40 hours in I’ve not encountered a single bug. The art style has grown on me over time and the game looks stunning. I need to emphasise that I’m really enjoying it and I think it’s a very good game - the only shame is that I can see how much better it could have been. I honestly think if David Gaider had stayed on, it could have been the best in the series.